7 speed confusing

[drawis]

Hi folks-

So here's the beginner's questions.

I have an Orange hardtail bike with a missing front mech/shifter/everything but with a triple up front, so I need to obtain the necessary bits to enable front shifting.

At the rear is a Shimano 7 speed set up- I think its Alivio- in working order. Is this an OK quality or is is better off replaced?

Queries are, despite much web-trawling:

1. When buying a front mech (I'll stick with Shimano) does it matter how many speeds the manufacturer says it is for? i.e. will a modern 9/10 speed front mech suffice, given that somewhere along the line narrower chains start to appear (is that 9 speed and up?)

2. Are 7/8 speed set ups fundamentally compatible- i.e. using wider chains not modern narrow ones?

3. Is it the case that good quality 7 speed rear mechs/cassettes are now hard to come by, at least new?

Sorry for all the basic questions. I'm not into full on mountain biking- really a mixture of road and bumpy trails- so don't really need top end gnarly off road mechs and see no advantage in silly numbers of gears. My requirements are more in line I suppose with 'off road touring'

Thanks

 

[jimo746]

1. I don't really know, but you should be ok with anything designed for a triple chainring setup. I've run modern Shimano front mechs on older chainsets and once adjusted they are fine.

2.....

3. Depends how you define "quality", I recently got a SRAM 7 speed cassette new from Chainreaction Cycles, it was surprisingly cheap.

 

[highlandsflyer]

You can pick up compatible mechs spanking new, and NOS of all manner are readily available. Same goes for cassettes and just about everything else, check eBay and Google.

For exact advice you need to give up some more details about the bike!

 

[drawis]

Hi. Its an Orange c16r.

It just seemed to me that when I search the web all new front mechs are 9, 10, 11... speed and the only 7 speeds still made are bottom of the range stuff.

But it seemed to me that so long as there's no huge difference in chain widths then the front mechs at least should be pretty much interchangeable?

Thanks

 

[Agency_Scum]

1. yes

2. yes

3. no

 

[highlandsflyer]

If you want to 'upgrade', I would go with XT. You can pick up NOS or good condition s/h from here or eBay easily enough, and places like Chain Reaction and SJS tend to have decent clearance offers on slightly more modern gear.

My initial decision would be based on the condition of the existing drive train. How are the chain rings? If it is an Alivio chainset in good nick or not I would consider replacing the whole shebang asap with something lighter and better fitting the nice frame, but if you just want to get it up and running start by getting what you need and replace at leisure as the bargains come up. Whether you stick to seven speed or go to 8/9 is really down to personal preference.

I seem to recall reading Sithlord's build thread for one such machine. (Should do, as it was only a few hours ago after seeing your thread!)

 

[Anthony]

The worst problem is that flashy modern kit will look sh!t on a bike designed for silver parts.

Aside from that, don't worry about the chains - 9-speed chains will work fine on 7/8-speed set ups and are fractionally stronger than 7/8-speed chains. The only incompatibility is that a 7/8-speed chain is too wide for a 9-speed cassette. The actual sprockets themselves are the same thickness though, so a 9-speed chain sits happily on a 7-speed sprocket (or front ring). The incompatibility is in the spacing betwen the sprockets, which on a 9-speed cassette is too small so that an 8-speed chain might foul the adjoining sprocket.

In my experience, 7-speed rms do have enough horizontal range to reach across the wider 8/9-speed cassettes, but I'm not sure if this is always the case. However you might find that your Alivio rm doesn't have enough capacity to handle the spread in a 9-speed cassette (say 11-34 when it was designed for 11-30 max). On the oher hand, a modern rm will handle a 7-speed set up very easily.

There shouldn't be any compatibility problems with modern front mechs.

In general, although they used to offer C16Rs with Alivio-level kit to make a particular price point in the market, you have a good-quality double-butted frame there, a classic really, and it's worthy of at least LX-level parts, preferably XT.

 

[highlandsflyer]

The worst problem is that flashy modern kit will look sh!t on a bike designed for silver parts.

Aside from that, don't worry about the chains - 9-speed chains will work fine on 7/8-speed set ups and are fractionally stronger than 7/8-speed chains. The only incompatibility is that a 7/8-speed chain is too wide for a 9-speed cassette. The actual sprockets themselves are the same thickness though, so a 9-speed chain sits happily on a 7-speed sprocket (or front ring). The incompatibility is in the spacing betwen the sprockets, which on a 9-speed cassette is too small so that an 8-speed chain might foul the adjoining sprocket.

In my experience, 7-speed rms do have enough horizontal range to reach across the wider 8/9-speed cassettes, but I'm not sure if this is always the case. However you might find that your Alivio rm doesn't have enough capacity to handle the spread in a 9-speed cassette (say 11-34 when it was designed for 11-30 max). On the oher hand, a modern rm will handle a 7-speed set up very easily.

There shouldn't be any compatibility problems with modern front mechs.

In general, although they used to offer C16Rs with Alivio-level kit to make a particular price point in the market, you have a good-quality double-butted frame there, a classic really, and it's worthy of at least LX-level parts, preferably XT.

Got to agree with all of this.

Back in the 90s, makers started speccing bikes to sell in mass numbers, as the framesets were in the main identical throughout the price levels for each model you could get the bike you ideally wanted at the entry level and upgrade all the bolt ons after with what you already had or what you could later afford.

I had the same XTR gear on a number of different bikes, swapping it out before the sale of each.

Now that the parts of such high quality are out there for relatively little, it would seem churlish not to give the frame the chance to shine with a decent set up.

Looking forward to seeing it built up, like most of the old Oranges it is a sweet looking bike.

 

[Mr Panda]

this one's a '95 I think - mix match of kit - xtr/xt/alivio/pace but it works beautifully and is 8 speed now. 7 speed equally acceptable )

 

[drawis]

Thanks folks for all your input.

I agree it would be nice to fit the bike with some decent gear, so begins a long search...

I think I might source the front/rear mechs and some shifters first and then think about cassettes/chainwheels and so on a bit later.

Searching about it seems that some older xt kit is silver and these days there is more black on them- correct?