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hey cheers but sorted now, forgot to update the thread earlier. Axle to crown the suntours are 480mm and my local bike shop had these from covid , Surly Ogres that measure bang on 480mm from axle to crown. Got a real bargain on em too.I've some carbon ones but need to check the axle to crown, steelers quite long iirc, I'll check as soon as I can escape to the workshop haha