1989 Claud Butler Pagan. Gravelly Rebuild?

[Jaffa]

Hi Dave, regarding the forks......

Hiya, thanks for the detailed answers.

Could you explain what you mean regarding the frame having 1 1/8" headset? I thought it was 1" for quill stem types?

I've seen some aheadset adapters but they're all quite ugly solutions that ruin the look of the cockpit.

I wont be doing any d/h mtb riding lol, mostly to and fro tarmac bimbling and spinning around the new forest gravel track network, its strangely hilly round here and the forest gravel is this horrible orange, wet, claggy, draggy stuff. God knows where they get it from but its everywhere.

Just called my finishers and they said 75 quid frame and fork, strip, prime and coat. 3 week wait though...... RAL paint codes only (I'm liking 7024 at the moment). Sounds fair to me?

Cheers

Dave.

 

[Takingabreak]

Hiya, thanks for the detailed answers.

Could you explain what you mean regarding the frame having 1 1/8" headset? I thought it was 1" for quill stem types?

I've seen some aheadset adapters but they're all quite ugly solutions that ruin the look of the cockpit.

I wont be doing any d/h mtb riding lol, mostly to and fro tarmac bimbling and spinning around the new forest gravel track network, its strangely hilly round here and the forest gravel is this horrible orange, wet, claggy, draggy stuff. God knows where they get it from but its everywhere.

Just called my finishers and they said 75 quid frame and fork, strip, prime and coat. 3 week wait though...... RAL paint codes only (I'm liking 7024 at the moment). Sounds fair to me?

Cheers

Dave.

the blue Raleigh frame is from 1991 so a bit newer than your Claud. In that time things were changing and it seems Raleigh had moved from 1" threaded to 1 1/8" threaded, which meant I could swap the forks and headset to something more modern. I wouldn't suggest you go down that route as it will likely be more challenging to find 1" ahead forks, headset and stem. Just look for a nice threaded 1" headset that isn't too hefty.

I'm liking the look of RAL7024, looks similar to one of THM's Overbury's. Are you not keen on going for something similar to the original colours?

Edited - regarding the forks, weigh yours first, it they are exceptionally heavy and you want something lighter then you may be able to find something in Reynolds 531 on ebay second hand with a 1" threaded steerer to suit before you send the frame off for coating

 

[Jaffa]

Ok makes sense. I've just pulled the forks and dealt with the crown race, None of the nuts, races or seats were really what you could call tight. I use a length of brass stock as a drift and couple of sharp taps did for all of it.



A couple of broken balls in each set of bearings!



Headtube looks good....



As does the.lugwork, ok they're nothing flash but sturdy, dependable quite nice...



I've had this bike since I was 16 and it will probably see out my days if I rebuild it thoroughly now. I've never liked the colour to be honest, so late 80's!

I just weighed the fork at 1170 grams. Not sure where to go with the fork. Are there generic replacements? Carbon?

More updates soon.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Jaffa]

I've just found the pedals I had changed onto the bike at the same time I bought it, along with the multitool and my old faithful Elite water bottle cage in black with gold splatter......

 

[Takingabreak]

Regarding the forks, I think that weight is par for the course for that age and style. The blue ones from the raleigh are almost an identical weight at 1172g. I don't know of any generic replacements that are available and would be significantly lighter and nothing new in carbon. Maybe a Pace RC30 fork could be found but it would change the appearance of the bike quite a bit. http://www.goatsurfer.com/pace_forks.html

Maybe it's right that the existing forks stay as part of the build.

 

[Frankenorange]

Keep the forks unless you found the handling sketchy in some way. You will save yourself alot of time, money and hassle just sticking with the originals. Finding the right combination of rake, steerer tube length, material, weight and axle to crown can take a good while. Been there and got that t-shirt!

I would put the money and time saved into a quality set of wheels and tyres, a bullet proof cantilever brake setup and drivetrain. Keep it simple and as cheap as poss first(without any false economy), get yourself fit and enjoy doing that last bit. Also; unless doing a catalogue project, with NOS, be careful not to get ripped off over 'retro/vintage parts'. You shouldn't here on RB, but on ebay you will.

My advice; Don't go down any rabbit holes of experimentation and boutique, or high tech parts to start with. You might just end up really p@ssed off and annoyed before you have done that many miles. After a few hundred miles you might think of upgrading something and giving yourself xmas presents, but you need to get to that point happily.

 

[Jaffa]

Good points, well made and firmly noted. I'm a great believer in K.I.S.S

I had been pondering how oaklecs different forks changed the geometry of his bike. I like the idea of using the original forks. I think the rake looks funky and isnt really to my tastes but I think the white paint highlights that. To be fair I had also expected them to be heavier.

So I intend to replace the BB and HS. With quality new items. What should I be looking at in terms of quality vs price?

I do want to fit dtop bars of some sort and already have several shorter reach quill stems in my stash to account for the extra reach to the hoods on drops. So need guidance on retrofitting drops, sourcing shifters and matching up derailleurs.

I also need that low low gearing I mentioned before, I dont need loads of gears but 34T max seems tiny by modern standards. Can this be practically overcome by changing chainrings?

Need to get the old BB out next....

Cheers

Dave

 

[Jaffa]

Quick update.

I looked at bike specific toolkits yesterday, not happy with what I'm seeing in terms of vfm. Does anyone have any suggestions on a basic set of bike specific tools? I have decent, regular mechanics tools, just not the random bicycle stuff.

Anyway, my LBS will remove the BB for a fiver, so for now I'm going to go with that and sort some tools out in the interim.

How do you deal with the BB cable guide?



Mine is broken for starters but also appears to be held on by a rivet? How the hell do you rivet it back on without it poking through and fouling the BB body inside?

Is it worth going from square taper to hollowtech? Huge weight savings for not much dosh by the looks of it?

I'm resolving around a dark grey (RAL 7024) frame, maybe matching or gloss black forks, with all black components but that might not be that straightforward, so realism will reign.

Do I need a separate clear coat with RAL solid colour powder coating?

Cheers.

Dave

 

[Takingabreak]

Hi Dave,

Regarding tools, my experience has been that it's better to spend on reasonable quality tools. You just need a set of allen keys and a few others. However, if this will be your one and only build, I suggest letting your local bike shop refit whichever bottom bracket and headset you choose as the outlay of the specific tools is too high for a one off use.

Regarding the bottom bracket guide, the rivet will need to be drilled out and a new guide either riveted back in place or a short screw used.

Regarding which type of bottom bracket to use, if you move away from square taper you will need to buy a new crank as well.

Square taper is a good design and I see no reason to switch. Cartridge square taper bottom brackets are available from a variety of brands and in a variety of weights, ranging from a basic UN51 / 2 through to XT (which is lighter) and again onto some swish lightweight titanium axle, carbon shell versions. Your existing bottom bracket may be fine to reuse, but probably a false economy if it's the original one. If you are retaining your existing crank, measure the existing bottom bracket axle to you know which length to buy.

Regarding weight saving and the crank, whether you keep your existing or buy something new, bear in mind that aluminium chainrings and bolts are lighter than steel. You pays your money and makes your choice.

As for clearcoating over the powdercoat, ideally yes, it helps stop the powdercoat fading. Whether you fit decals under the clear coat or over the top is a personal choice and will depend on if the decals are made to stand the heat of the paint oven. If they are stuck on top of the clear coat that will wear and get scratched over time but you can simply peel off and fit new ones when they become tatty.

That's a lot of typing for a Friday.... Have fun

 

[Jaffa]

Hiya,

Thanks for that Oaklec.

Will see what the LBS are able to extract from my frame. I definately had the BB replaced by a different LBS back in 2014 and the bike has probably only done 1000 miles since then.

Will report back this evening, with pics.

Cheers

Dave