“Cyclists are bad for the economy and the planet”

[Woz]

Liking how this thread is becoming "a catch all in a bucket rant". What could be better after a day, sit down to RB,
with a glass of red and reel off ones thoughts......

Got to say, I'm actually fed-up of the Scandinavian benchmark bullshit. My own experience in Stockholm area for 17 years (a part of Scandinavia)
about cycle lanes etc. is a lesson in a) Policy to separate cyclists from motorists b) Engineers can't separate cyclists from motorists
due to physical realities or budget. c) Cyclists and motorists can not adjust adequately in handoves from (a) to (b) and back again.
d) Cyclists are at incredible danger from motorists in rural and remote areas, where there is no separation policy implemented.

End result is an inconstant dangerous cluster ****. Most cyclists are inept in car traffic. Most motorits are inept in cyclists traffic.

No halo of cycling goodness is merited whatsoever. You need to ride aggressively to stay up right and
to survive: https://www.youtube.com/c/bikestockholm/videos I can only say, go there and ride and see the moronic behavior.

Now, in my mind, it's Spain getting it right. Share the road, with no bullying from drivers, apply laws and implement them with no
remorse for sloppy driving: https://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/32661/rules-change-for-drivers-overtaking-cyclists

In this way, as pointed out, there is no reason to build anything. The separatist traffic logic can work in zones (like pedestrian areas),
but it is far from the perfect answer on the grand geographical scale to cover a entire country / continent.

After a few more glasses, I will wade in with Copenhagen.....

 

[2manyoranges]

Interesting iconoclasm - and getting at real stuff, since research in UK shows that accidents relating to cycle lanes cluster at the point at which the cycle lane ends and rejoins the ‘normal’ road. Some of the cycle lanes in ‘Crap Cycle Lanes’ are mad or lethal or both. Those mad things in Cambridge and London which put the cycle lane down the middle of lines of traffic have had some fatalities and are ill-conceived, I think.

I broadly agree with the ‘no reason to build anything’ approach, although nice gravel shared footpaths can work - like the path from the top of Ditchling Road to Stanmer Woods - that’s in Brighton, and gets you out of town and off-road without having to negotiate a very fast and curved main road.

Having said that, the answer does seem to lie in establishing culture and behaviour. I hate riding on the road. Absolutely hate it. The abuse from drivers is decreasing, but it still happens, and is disturbing when it does. So...simple answer...all my riding is off road. Off-road any abuse comes from me directed at me, despairing at mistakes and poor technique. Injuries come from my errors, not those of others.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Only a banker or a satirist would choose the macdonald economy over cycling. Or perhaps an idiot. I'm definitely not a banker.

 

[Rank_21]

Personally, on the face of it that sounds like hell on Earth.
Also, I smell bullshit whenever I hear about any infrastructure project or new product described as being 'green' or 'environmental' or any such synonym. If there is really a 'green' thing to do, it is to stop building shit, not build more of it.
If you ask me, a precipitous drop in 'economic activity' is a necessary but not sufficient condition for any 'future' worth inhabiting, or it would be, if we hadn't built so much dangerous 'hi-tech' shit already that we might have to keep a dysfunctional system in place just to make an attempt at dismantling and decommissioning it all.. and of course you have to ask yourself whether that is an accidental or deliberate attribute of the 'dysfunctional system'- that there is no safe route to relinquishing it? That the very attempt just leads to more and more of it?
"The more you have, the more you need". That seems to apply to energy, technology, capital, and bicycles too.. probably...

I like your point. My local « eco » mayor in france hasn’t stopped building in the city including lots of tarmarced bike motorways nobody uses….

 

[madjh]

Proud to be cyclist. I´m going to buy annother bicycle to prove that I´m more cyclist that anyone

They still think that cycling is cheap, you don´t spend money in bicycles and don´t go to hospitals when you crash ...

 

[Raging_Bulls]

My local « eco » mayor in france hasn’t stopped building in the city including lots of tarmarced bike motorways nobody uses….

Then either the city planner isn't doing a good job integrating everything, or people still need to make that mental switch to ditch their car and start using bikes for commuting.


When our local government started changing the paths next to canals and train tracks to make a big network of cycle highways between cities and villages, everyone thought they were crazy. Fast forward 5 years and tons of people are using them.

Granted, e-bikes make up the majority of bikes on there, so their rise to popularity probably contributed to the use of these "highways".
Or maybe e-bikes became so popular here because the cycle highways made it much easier and safer to ride bikes?
Something something chicken egg

 

[M-Power]

All the youth seem to be on leccy bikes these days. I see them pulling 200yd manuals at speed up hills on the road 2/3 abreast. I appreciate leccy benefits but nothing beats that amazing feeling you get from fitness when you put serious miles in on a push bike. In 20yrs the world will be unrecognisable I guess.

 

[Rank_21]

Then either the city planner isn't doing a good job integrating everything, or people still need to make that mental switch to ditch their car and start using bikes for commuting.


When our local government started changing the paths next to canals and train tracks to make a big network of cycle highways between cities and villages, everyone thought they were crazy. Fast forward 5 years and tons of people are using them.

Granted, e-bikes make up the majority of bikes on there, so their rise to popularity probably contributed to the use of these "highways".
Or maybe e-bikes became so popular here because the cycle highways made it much easier and safer to ride bikes?
Something something chicken egg

Yeh they’re great for cyclists to get about. But just like where you are. What’s mainly developped is the usage of Ebikes and Electric scooters, soft mobility. So less people exercising, questionable environmental impact of lithium batteries and throwaway ebike carcasses, so no real recycling. The CO2 impact of building these highways as per the original quote somewhat contradicts the eco package we are sold. It’s eco capitalism in a way - building more and spending more under the guise of being Good for the environnement…

 

[Woz]

.... throwaway ebike carcasses ....

It's going to be interesting in the future. Already at the charity shop I'm seeing first generation Ebikes getting dumped.

Since no one would want an old Ebike with obsolete battery formats, there could be an interesting second hand market
created by stripping them for the re-usable parts like handlebars, brakes, hubs, seat-posts etc. at stupid low prices.

Would also be nice to think that a new "hipster fashion backlash" starts similar to the Fixie movement driven by
a need for simpler cheap personal uncluttered transport. Old Ebike carcasses, re-purposed for a human powered cargo
bike kind-of thing or adapted for an additional pillion rider.

Who knows, perhaps in 15 years time there will be retro-Ebike frames listed on weight-weenies.

 

[Rank_21]

It's going to be interesting in the future. Already at the charity shop I'm seeing first generation Ebikes getting dumped.

Since no one would want an old Ebike with obsolete battery formats, there could be an interesting second hand market
created by stripping them for the re-usable parts like handlebars, brakes, hubs, seat-posts etc. at stupid low prices.

Would also be nice to think that a new "hipster fashion backlash" starts similar to the Fixie movement driven by
a need for simpler cheap personal uncluttered transport. Old Ebike carcasses, re-purposed for a human powered cargo
bike kind-of thing or adapted for an additional pillion rider.

Who knows, perhaps in 15 years time there will be retro-Ebike frames listed on weight-weenies.

Haha I better start collecting them for future retirement plans, apparently when I reach 95yrs. I fiddled plenty with ebikes (diy, commuter, made some batteries even). It becomes a serious pain, one I will never go back to. Between theft, water damage, expensive batteries Etc.