Claud Butler-Holdsworth frame numbers 1959-1976

[Cyclelogical]

Hello, regular visitors to this road bike side of the forum will most likely be familiar with the Holdsworth frame number threads originated by dwscrimshaw;Holdsworth Frame Numbers and Holdsworth Frame Numbers Update

These have been used by dw to create an excellent Holdsworth/Holdsworth Claud database which you can access via the http://www.nkilgariff.com website ‘Holdsworth Frame Number Database’

And some of you may have noticed my thread advising on Claud Butler Frame number identification here;Claud Butler frame number identification

Historically there has been a bit of a black hole for Claud Butlers betwee1959 & mid 1976. This period is when Holdsworth numbered the New Clauds separately from their own stock, re-adjusting the numbers mid 1967 to prevent a clash with their own numbers then finally mid-summer 1976 giving up on the idea of keeping them separate and amalgamating both Claud & Holdsworths under the ‘start with a zero’ system
I say Historically, because CBguy over in Canada & myself here in the UK have been collecting **Good Data** numbers to hang dates from for some time now and have finally with the help of dwscrimshaws prediction system put together our initial findings. You can see these now incorporated in the Holdsworth Frame Number Database (link above)
What we need from you is more data please, Holdsworth Clauds, specifically from 1959-1976. Don’t worry if you are not sure, that’s all part of the fun.
Please post the frame number and a photo and any information you have however spurious it might be.
Here is what we have so far.

**update 28/03/19**
**update 22/07/19**
**update 02/10/19**View attachment 466816

Hi Peachy,I have been doing some research on a bike I have just acquired.It’s a Soens Cycles but not a Jim Soens build as his serial numbers only went up to 888.I read on another thread that Holdsworth could possibly have built some frames for Soens,which think mine is.The serial number is K66281,which i think makes it a 1966 built.Do you know if this is correct? many thanks Andy

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Hi Peachy,I have been doing some research on a bike I have just acquired.It’s a Soens Cycles but not a Jim Soens build as his serial numbers only went up to 888.I read on another thread that Holdsworth could possibly have built some frames for Soens,which think mine is.The serial number is K66281,which i think makes it a 1966 built.Do you know if this is correct? many thanks Andy

That number would be a shop build from 1966 as you say. the K can either be stock build or special depending on you point of view as a lot of frame I have found with a K are far from "stock" items. Interestingly the letter is at the start on this number?

 

[Cyclelogical]

That number would be a shop build from 1966 as you say. the K can either be stock build or special depending on you point of view as a lot of frame I have found with a K are far from "stock" items. Interestingly the letter is at the start on this number?

Many thanks for confirming what I suspected.It’s in great condition for the year,and as I already have a Holdsworth Mistral,I’ll keep it as a Soens.It must be one of the few here in New Zealand

 

[1989Pre]

I take possession of this bike on Monday next. A re-spray with no decals, but I have only ever seen these dropouts, fork ends and fork crown on Holdsworth Grubbs and C.B.'s. The number, 2793, including its location, font and font-size seem to indicate C.B. It has Nervex Legere #45 lugs. Curiously-absent are top-tube brazed-on pump pegs, and someone apparently added water bottle cage bosses. I don't know the model, but the stamped (Cyclo?) drops should make quick work of identification.

 

[vociferous]

I have what is apparently a C.B. but I can not identify the model. If anyone could specify which it is, it would be helpful. The fork ends and dropouts identify it as either a C.B. or Grubb from Holdsworth, and the serial number is not a Grubb number of that period.
Some characteristics: No lamp bracket boss on fork blade
No shift lever boss
No stop for clamp on under-side of down-tube
cable guide on top of b.b. shell for rear mech
# 2793 on under-side of b.b. and on fork steerer
Nervex Legere #45 lugs
No head-badge rivet holes on head-tube.
"72°" on right side of seat cluster
"A" on left side[...]

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Looking at the number & its location I would suggest an early Holdsworth built CB from 1959. That said not sure I can ID the model, those window in the head lugs are distinctive, but not common for any model that year. Maybe other can comment.

 

[Peachy!]

Those windows in the lugs have me stumped, sorry

 

[vociferous]

I can see small, bronze solder areas where the top-tube pump peg holes have been filled.
I'll get some clearer (maybe outdoor) photos to you as soon as I complete the painting and get it fairly built.
I'm going to make it my first fixed-gear, and have a nice set of Constrictor/Hardens for it. The frame-set is the same size and is almost identical to that of my '63 Grubb Routier.

 

[CBguy]

Nervex Legere pattern 45 lugs appear to have been used on CB Coureur in first couple Holdsworthy years before switching to more common and later Legere 48 version.

See prior post #85.

 

[vociferous]

Nervex Legere pattern 45 lugs appear to have been used on CB Coureur in first couple Holdsworthy years before switching to more common and later Legere 48 version.

See prior post #85.

Thank you. This is the information I needed. The frame is minus some braze-ons, in comparison to the Coureur advert, but that works well for me, as I will build this as a fixed-gear track frame. It'll be ready in the spring. Here it is a little more visible: