Why did they go … (Middleburn, PACE, onZa, IRD, Kirk, Bullseye, etc)

[2manyoranges]

It’s the stories I am interested in…Hope have gone from strength to strength, USE still produce some great kit, but others have evaporated…even the ones like Bontrager and Klein which got gulped up by big corporates, I still don’t know the precise sequence of events which led to decline and fall or acquisition. Why did Middleburn go? They made such good products. Any stories anyone?

 

[boxxer]

Companies come and go, some grew too big others like Rockshox over reached on a loan from SRAM and were subsumed into other Companies

Some fell from relevance like Crud and others like Gorilla had products that were too niche

 

[2manyoranges]

Thanks B but it’s the precise STORY which I am interested in … exactly WHY did Keith B decide to sell out when he did …. Etc

 

[fettler]

Don't quote me on this..... I recall Bullseye transitioned to the son/sons and there on things changed.

Kirk, a friend of mine had a new mtb one BITD, it was warranted on frame replacement 3 times for the rear dropout breaking off before the replaceable hanger gave way. After this it was replaced under warranty with a Dawes steel frame and that lasted him out. Like me he had a paper round but he'd always drop his bike on which ever side he felt like. I think using modern tech this concept could be a thing but a brave engineer must step forward. Empire is currently flying the casting flag I think.

There's many great historic MTB companies still out there, some are still good, some reduced to average or less. To remain a top notch elite company remains a balance between volume and perceived brilliance. Many early companies revolved around an amazing engineer with a vision. Most surviving companies have gone big or sold out to the firm and lost the kudos.

 

[scant]

Middleburn got bought out by betd & their stuff is still available. https://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/brand/middleburn/

 

[2manyoranges]

Middleburn got bought out by betd & their stuff is still available. https://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/brand/middleburn/

Again I’m interested in why Middleburn got into the state they did, given the thought and quality of their products (again contrast Hope).

 

[scant]

i'm not going to name individual companies. people forget why bike companies exist, to make money. when a smaller company is either sick of the bike trade, or just struggling to earn a consistent living & a much larger bike company or conglomeration offers to buy them out, the big corp is made to look like the bad guys & the small company the heros. the reality being the smaller companies were often overjoyed to be bought out & either retire, or take a back step.

 

[clubby]

exactly WHY did Keith B decide to sell out when he did ….

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

As far as the 90's buyouts go, look at how fast the industry was changing. Bontrager, Fisher and Klein built beautiful but expensive bikes and rigid forks. Everyone was adopting suspension forks and experimenting with with full suss. That took budget the smaller builders just didn't have. Trek came along and offered them (presumably) a good chunk of money for their name and also offered a consultant salary. They'd the chance to push designs without risking their own money.

Can't say for sure, but I think that new buyers didn't have any knowledge/ interest in who these guys were and saw no reason to pay a premium over a Trek. Original Klein bikes are chunky but in proportion and when you stuck on a skinny Judy or Indy they just looked wrong. Why pay more for a rigid steel Bontrager when it's not hand made any more. Gary Fisher got to pursue 29ers and different geometry, but again they were just incorporated into the Trek range.

Again I’m interested in why Middleburn got into the state they did, given the thought and quality of their products (again contrast Hope).

£££££££££££

Too expensive yet not expensive enough.

I had a look at the BETD site, £189.50 for crank arms alone and another £89 for a direct mount ring. For half the price you can get Sram GX or for £50 more you can get carbon X01. XTR is £360 for the arms alone and they still sell, so do Cane Creek E wings at a grand. It's not that people won't pay silly money for parts, but you do need to make sure you charge enough to survive, even if you sell fewer parts. Middleburn didn't and chose not to struggle on and that was going to be the end until BETD came along to buy the designs and the name.
I still have a set of RS7 on my STS and they are lovely but when I specced my custom built bike eight years ago, I can't honestly say I even considered them.

 

[hookooekoo]

Just a theory, but maybe people who are great designers and engineers aren't necessarily great marketers.

After new companies and product lines are launched, it probably takes quite a bit of effort to keep the momentum going. Now I'm not a great fan of marketing, because I think good products ought to sell themselves. However, it's only a matter of time before others will jump on the bandwagon, and try to take a slice of the pie. That means in a competitive environment you need a lot of investment in marketing, and maybe some component manufacturers didn't fully appreciate that.

Perhaps that's why smaller innovators, designers and manufacturers so often get gobbled up by larger ones. The owners realised that they needed huge investment to maintain their current market position and share. It's easier to just sell up, and move on, rather than die a slow death as a much larger competitor moves into your area of business and crushes you with their marketing experience and marketing budgets.

 

[Imlach]

Just a theory, but maybe people who are great designers and engineers aren't necessarily great marketers.

After new companies and product lines are launched, it probably takes quite a bit of effort to keep the momentum going. Now I'm not a great fan of marketing, because I think good products ought to sell themselves. However, it's only a matter of time before others will jump on the bandwagon, and try to take a slice of the pie. That means in a competitive environment you need a lot of investment in marketing, and maybe some component manufacturers didn't fully appreciate that.

Perhaps that's why smaller innovators, designers and manufacturers so often get gobbled up by larger ones. The owners realised that they needed huge investment to maintain their current market position and share. It's easier to just sell up, and move on, rather than die a slow death as a much larger competitor moves into your area of business and crushes you with their marketing experience and marketing budgets.

I agree with this.

Marketing and the fact that the overall cycling industry turned into some weird form of monoculture. Sure, there's still developments and new proprietary standards being pushed, but it's being pushed by big names who know how to solidify their products on the market, hence standard changes in the current industry are far more sudden and seems to sweep the consumers like a fecking hurricane. There's little time for consumers to actually develop a feel for the tech. The days of constant experimentation and smaller, independent product design are gone. Because the industry seeks to destroy it.

Another side of it is perhaps that the big names sometimes realise how much of a badge of approval certain smaller, more boutique companies get, and they buy them up and mass produce cheap shit under the name in the hope that it'll attract folks that otherwise wouldn't buy their stuff.

Now I'm not necessarily bothered about any of this, I don't really buy modern stuff. And I couldn't really care less for many of the developments and experiments of the early days of MTB, I'm pretty set on certain standards.

What I'd actually like are companies that cater to what I really care about, tech standards that folks associate with obsolete shite (which is what square taper has been reduced to nowadays) - I'd like reasonably priced, solid quality stuff for older tech... But why'd anyone go and do something stupid like that?

I'm pretty tipsy so this might all be nonsense ~hiccup~