Wheres 'Ebay Madness' I've something to add

[mk one]

That's for sales on this forum. E-bay or elsewhere, since the start, has always been available for criticism. Members on here or not.

and actually, in sales it's a written rule as such.

That was what i was referring to, though if i remember correctly the thread was pushing the boundaries

 

[Jamesbike]

A bike is worth what

a) the seller thinks it is,

b) what a buyer thinks it's worth.

C) what society, community, forum thinks it's worth.

A = B is a sale

C is a 5 page thread!!

 

[Synthiaks]

Think this makes a point about people are wiling to pay........so to me this is an insane amount for one brake even if it is super rare, whoever bought it might think they got a bargain.

I don't understand anyone paying over the odds ebay prices as 'buy it nows' when a little hunting can usually find you the same thing (or a whole bike with your special items on it..) for less....I'm sure laziness or wanting a part quickly account for a lot of the 'over priced' selling, also nostalgia....thats like crack...and the reason I've bought a couple of things for more than they're worth if i was to try and offload them (rusty early ridgeback's for instance, worthless to anyone but me, but also the reason I first found this place which is a positive).

Anyhow, as @Jamesbike says....C is the fun part...

 

[M_Chavez]

Why spend this much on one brake when you can get an entire carbolite pug for that price?
https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/...ycle-women-s-new-c19-brooks-saddle/1441115203
Worth the asking price just for the saddle!

 

[pw_pw_la]

Surely contradictory, and no, you didnt, that is the point i made, that things are worth what people pay for them, meaning to themselves, making the value subjective, both points you originally argued against, but we are getting there, slowly

Not at all. Why is it contradictory? And it was what I've said:

I admit I have often times paid over the odds for stuff, and that only helps perpetuate the inflated so-called market value

rare and special things deserve rare and special attention and should be priced accordingly

I don't have any problem with someone paying over the odds for something they do really want. How people spend their own money is their business only.

You can charge anything for anything, but I don't think that's the same thing as assigning its value.

I have NO PROBLEM at all with people paying whatever they want for something, I have done it myself, but that doesn't mean I don't have a problem with people charging whatever they want FOR something.

But even then it's not so much that, the problem I really have is the assumption that those two things dictate the value of something. They simply don't. They dictate the market price. Which isn't the same thing as dictating what something is actually worth. It's worth is based entirely on what it is, not what people are trading it for. I don't see how this is a difficult thing to grasp. Or at least that it's something other people might believe in.

I don't begrudge anyone for not having a problem with fluctuating markets and price inflation, but I don't understand why it would seemingly upset anyone to know that there are people out there who wish things were valued not by what the maximum profit you could theoretically make on something is, but based on factors such as rarity, quality and provenance.

And I think the vintage market would be a lot better if it self-regulated itself to a degree to factor this in more often.

That's why regulation exists in most other market places. To stop people charging whatever they want for something without others knowing any better. It's why new products come with a RRP, to stop price gauging and the keep competition fair. I don't think just because something is old, it's value becomes entirely subjective.

Wouldn't be much fun watching the Antiques Roadshow if the experts weren't there guiding people with the valuations of things, and it was just a bunch of people with old stuff saying, "Well, this is what I think this is worth based on what I think I can get for it"!

Then again, I'd argue there isn't much fun to be had watching the Antiques Roadshow regardless!

Anyway, I've already said everything I have to say on this subject. I'm glad there are people out there who don't have a problem with the way things are going, or how things are being priced; who can afford what they want and need for their bikes

I guess I'd just say that I'm not sure it would exactly harm anyone if we treated all this a little differently. I mean, would you be upset if you made a little less on a sale if it meant you also spent a little less on a purchase?

You could argue that, in that case, value is irrelevant because those two things can and maybe even will even themselves out.

But doing so ignores the very real fact that some people might not be able to make that initial purchase in the first place, to then be able to use the market to their advance and later make a sale to join in on all the fun.

So yeah, back to the gatekeeping argument. High prices keep people out. And that's just not something I can get behind.

And I'm not even someone who struggles! I know what I like and want, and what I can afford, and I've had good luck and plenty of help and favors getting a lot of it; have sold and traded for others. But I know for sure some people aren't so lucky, and that's a shame.

On a related note: I went to a swap this morning. A '93 perforated white leather Flite saddle, in decent knick, for $10.

The profit I could have made on that thing on here or eBay. But you know what? My buddy who was with me has a bike it would be just perfect for, so I grabbed it and waited for him to arrive so he could have himself a bargain.

I guess original Flites are worth $10 now.

Because that's the current going rate for one according to the market of about one hour ago.

 

[pw_pw_la]

Think this makes a point about people are wiling to pay........so to me this is an insane amount for one brake even if it is super rare, whoever bought it might think they got a bargain.

I don't understand anyone paying over the odds ebay prices as 'buy it nows' when a little hunting can usually find you the same thing (or a whole bike with your special items on it..) for less....I'm sure laziness or wanting a part quickly account for a lot of the 'over priced' selling, also nostalgia....thats like crack...and the reason I've bought a couple of things for more than they're worth if i was to try and offload them (rusty early ridgeback's for instance, worthless to anyone but me, but also the reason I first found this place which is a positive).

Anyhow, as @Jamesbike says....C is the fun part...


View attachment 658178

But here's where things get interesting, because the brake in question I think falls into the category of not being valued only by the market, but actually being valued for what it is, who made it, and how well it actually works.

In 1987 WTB listed the price of a Roller Cam as $185 wholesale.



So, retail being about double wholesale, that's $934.

Which isn't too far-off what they go for now, which seems to be in the $900-$1200 range. And that's without factoring in demand, rarity, yada, yada.

Also, Charlie would tell you himself that the Toggle Cam is a superior version to a regular Rollercam!

Anyway, anyway, here I am moaning about all this price craziness and I recently paid the current going rate for a set of black Rollercams!

What a hypocrite!

Two things:

I don't think I was ripped off. I don't feel ripped off. And I'm still incredibly sad that someone without a grand in their pocket, or the means to trade something of that value (or, in my case, someone willing to let me pay for them over time), might miss out on owning and riding a brake of this caliber.

 

[dyna-ti]

Now I know who these forum members are, I can avoid their vastly over inflated prices

Why am I feeling pangs of guilt.

Maybe it's time for another box of mystery.

 

[kingoffootball]

Why am I feeling pangs of guilt.

Maybe it's time for another box of mystery.

I followed your lead with a box of mystery when I was reducing components before putting them into storage. While there are occassional parts I remember that I could now use, it was very liberating.

 

[Elfman]

Neither.

The thing itself does. Because, ideally, the people buying and selling it both know what it is, in the scheme of all the other things that also are, and therefore what it should cost.

And what it should cost (originally) should be a fair valuation of the time, skill, labor and materials that went into making it. Thereafter, any increase or decrease in its value should be weighed against those same things incrementally, based on current availability, alternatives, and, I suppose, trends. I know this is simplistic, and idealistic, but I do think it's the way things should be, in a more fair version of the world (aka, an honest market).

What money you make on something or spend on something is not the same as what that thing is worth.

It's supply and demand, yeah. But that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with charging whatever you want for something just because people will pay that for it.

Would you honestly buy a house that was four-times the going rate of houses of that size, condition and age in the area?

What's different with bikes?

Or Crunchies!

I'll die on this hill! Lol

I think you hit it, with supply and demand. Those are dynamic variables. If some idiot paid $200 for a crunchie, it's value isn't suddenly $200, unless we ALL suddenly became idiots and all bought crunchies at $200 a piece. We should be smarter than that, and pay what proper level of demand dictates, and perform our own invisible market correction.

Um, so let's all stop being idiots, or not start it in the first place!

 

[grey-beard]

What's this then? Supply or demand?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13421598...HJ90Nt5TzK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY