Tech / ideas that are old but as good as current quo

[Woz]

Re: Re:

I think the current gravel and adventure bikes are in some ways very similar to 90s rigid MTBs, but with bigger 650b or 700c wheels and some with drop bars.

I wonder whether they came about because modern MTBs are so off-road focused, such that people drive them to a trail centre, or to a location, to do a purely off-road ride. I imagine a 30lb bike with fat 2.8 inch wide knobbly tyres and 120mm or more suspension travel is something of a drag to ride on the road; I haven't tried one.

Like early rigid MTBs, a gravel bike isn't going to be as cabable off road, especially on the really technical stuff, as the latest all mountain or eduro, or whatever they're called, bike, but it's a lot more versatile if your ride includes a wide variety of surfaces and is longer than a five mile loop around some woods.

I don't have a car, so all my rides include some road. The latest, very off road focussed MTBs really don't interest me, so I've just bought a gravel bike.

Nailed it.. ^^^

+1

 

[Woz]

A lot of it is the segmentation of the market.
What we used to ride was one bike for everything, so it had to be good *enough* at everything. Now you have bikes for DH/Trail/XC/Jump/blah/blah.

Most people buy what is fashionable (trail oriented stuff) which are bloody useless on fire roads/gravel trails because.....

I imagine a 30lb bike with fat 2.8 inch wide knobbly tyres and 120mm or more suspension travel is something of a drag to ride on the road

so you "need" a gravel bike. Which is essentially a rigid XC race bike with drop bars.

Now the gravel bike (while having similar angles) does have a lower BB compared to retro XC MTB. Helps a bit on gentle
road type unrocky descents but nothing to write home about.

The big question though is why oh why wasn't the 26" XC race bike with drop bars never developed properly - only a niche
product or for those willing to tinker. 35C just doesn't cut it on anything steep with gravel to begin with.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

Now the gravel bike (while having similar angles) does have a lower BB compared to retro XC MTB. Helps a bit on gentle
road type unrocky descents but nothing to write home about.

Agreed, there are some drop bar gravel bikes that have quite a sporty riding position, but many of them are taller at the front end, especially when you take into account the lower BB, and therefore saddle height, to give a more upright riding position.

Even this Salsa Warbird, the sportier of Salsa's drop bar gravel bikes has quite a tall head tube, with the tops of the drops not far below the saddle:

Some of the flat bar "adventure" bikes are even more upright:

Contrast that with a 90s Kona, with it's long top tube and low front end which places the handlebars well below the saddle height, to give a low, stretched out riding position; great for a quick blast around the woods, not so great for longer rides that might last several hours:

So, while the angles might be similar, there can be a significant difference in the relative position of the contact points and the resulting riding position.

 

[Retro Spud]

That Kona has a short stem and disc tabs !

Although I get the point your making about the frame

 

[kingoffootball]

Re: Re:

Contrast that with a 90s Kona, with it's long top tube and low front end which places the handlebars well below the saddle height, to give a low, stretched out riding position; great for a quick blast around the woods, not so great for longer rides that might last several hours:

Maybe the change isn't always the bikes. All my bikes have this sort of riding position, for example:

and I still find them all comfortable on the longer 6-8 hour rides which are probably the maximum I'll ever do. However, I can foresee reaching a point where the riding position is no longer comfortable for me for rides that long.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

A lot also depends on relative arm length, if you can touch your knees without bending at the waist, a low handlebar height probably wont trouble you.

I have the opposite problem, I sometimes can't reach the bottom of pair of trouser pockets; that's what I tell my friends in the pub anyway.

 

[FluffyChicken]

...
Another thing that really bugs me is the obsession with taking a shovel to every loamy woodland. when we all started riding we were taught to respect the wild places not turn every thing into a berm and destroy the top layer.

I hear you and the berms and stuff, I guess it's because modern brakes and tyres and the short stubby stems don't allow people to brake, and turn and more.

 

[Woz]

Talking of old ideas, that Salsa Warbird as a 90s Univega style chainstay.

 

[xerxes]

Re:

You see quite a few modern frames with a dropped drive side chainstay, I think it's to help with chain ring clearance, and it maybe gives a bit more space between the chain itself and the chainstay so it doesn't hit it so often on rough ground.

There are also some frames with an elevated chainstay of the drive side and I think there were a few of those back in the 90s too, but I can't remember which.

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

E-stays are back, Baby!