Scammers are aggressively targeting the retro bike community.

[Carge]

Having recently experienced a "item not sent" situation where I'd paid by PP F&F from a guy on here - I chased the seller on PinkBike who have some very clear advice to their members not to use F&F.

As it turns out, I eventually got what I had bought - but it would certainly make me consider how I would pay for a big money item on here.

Can I ask - how many of us update Feedback on peeps we've traded with these days? I'll admit to being lazy on that.

So there are guys I know on here and trust - and there are a few I know less - but perhaps we all need to get back on the Feedback bandwagon to help inform our community.

And would I pay 4% on something expensive - from someone on here I didn't know - yes I probably would now.

 

[Miggy]

The scary part is that scammers usually work in groups, when one comes up with a better way to scam folks... They share it. I belong to vintage Audio forum and folks there have also been scammed and scammers banned but like I said... When there's 1 there's usually a few more watching and learning better ways to scam. Do take the time to YouTube scam baiting to learn the latest scams or bring this issue to their attention. My faves are pleasant green & scammer payback.
Worth learning their ways.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

While I am sure it is tempting to use F&F to avoid fees - and I see many ads on here requesting payment thus - to use F&F in that manner is fraudulent, a fraud by false representation, a criminal offence. We all ticked the box to say that we read and undersood and agree to abide by the T&C's, so there is no defence to using F&F for a commercial transaction, making a false representation for financial gain.

As such I'm surprised the forum allows it.

The odds of anyone caring are minimal, of being caught and held to account almost non existent. Nevertheless, that doesn't make it ok. Imagine if you ran your own business and a noteworthy proportion of punters managed to cheat you out of a couple of percent every rime they used your service by lying about the reason for the payment - you'd not be happy, so why do so many people put a few quid ahead of simply being honest?

And thats part of the problem. So many otherwise decent sellers, who have every intention of supplying the goods, use F&F to fraudulently avoid fees it has become natural that ads that request payment thus do not arouse the suspicion that perhaps they should. Every time you wilfully participate in a sneaky F&F transaction you're helping to perpetuate that situation.

Always use Paypal properly, and pay the fee. If everyone did that as they should, then ads pleading for F&F payments would stick out like the sore thumb they really are, and people wouldn't fall victims to such wheezes half so frequently. Think about that next time you're trying to dodge paying an extra 2 quid to Paypal.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I don't do PayPal full stop!
Moneybags musk is rich enough to go to the moon in another galaxy.he doesn't need anymore .I don't think enforcing or encouraging his umbrella services over the top of existing banking systems is the right thing. Sorry to say it but people are becoming so lazy ...few messages emails private messages open an app click pay it's too convenient... Just pick up a phone have a conversation use those natural human gifts called senses/instinct and make your judgement!
Its nuts probably in the last 6 months I've sold off stuff as part of a life clear out I reckon I've made maybe 25 sales,everytime I've handed my number out ...I reckon only 3 or 4 people have actually just picked up the phone for a chat! And funnily enough there the ones who came to collect! How bizarre

Btw those sales ....if I took payments as services then it becomes taxable income?
Hell no...my hard earned was taxed before i bought those items in the first place. I ain't paying a service charge and then getting taxed it's this kinda thing that isn't helping the current fiscal problems of the world.
Musk is a cunning unit... Pay Pal = two options...f+f or goods and services (IE business transaction) our high street banks have become faceless do we really need a global faceless umbrella bank?

Feck I'm ranting over my morning coffee I guess it was about a triple espresso I'm off for a peddle...

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Not so.

F&F does not automatically identify a sale as a busines transaction. You can advertise and sell an item to a stranger and take some money from them without it being a business transaction. Your old shoes, your car, even your house (provided you have lived in it for a requisite period of time) are all examples of sales, sometimes quite substantial, that do not attract a sales tax and which are not business transactions.

One needs to appreciate the distinction between doing business and running a business.

Sell your old mobile phone to stranger on Ebay you are simply doing business.

Buy an old mobile phone with the express purpose of selling it for a profit then you are running a business and if you do it often enough you become liable for tax. The R&E do appreciate and understand the difference, and even discuss it on their website.

Even then, It doesn't become taxable income until it reaches quite a significant threshold (daughter is an accountant) of both value and consistency.

Sell your privately owned, used and driven car for 50 grand more than you bought it for years ago and you wouldn't be taxed on it (slightly different if deliberately bought as an investment and stored in a climate controlled warehouse for just that purpose), and neither would you on trading bike parts primarily as a hobby unless you were tearing the absolute arriss out of it.

So that dog doesn't bark either, and it does not justify a technical, albeit largely harmless, fraud. After all, if you ran a business you would not be happy with customers routinely defrauding you pit of a few percent of each transaction.

Oh, and Musk has had nothing to do with PayPal for near on 2 decades.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Ah it's the suttle point tho of the choice with PayPal....
f+f or " goods " and " services " hence my description of musk as a cunning unit! He is highly intelligent very forward thinking two qualities which don't actually have to correspond with trustworthy!
Stateside next year the limit drops by 19400 dollars a year before taxable income....to 600dollars. So you think we're not going to get that in ol'blighty ?

 

[FluffyChicken]

@Chopper the ex Copper
From. The for sale section stuff.
RE PayPal gift.

1.3 The Deal
Use your common sense and discretion!
Check the users feedback. Either through the feedback forum or by clicking the feedback link below their post.
Do not use paypal gift, this breaches paypal's terms and conditions and gives no protection in case of issue.
Exchange 'real' contact details like name, address and phone number before the transaction occurs.
All items should be sent via recorded post.

 

[d8mok]

https://imgflip.com/i/6dbohm

 

[Magpiegifts]

Don't want any trouble I'm only in for fines

 

[mk one]

This thread is all over the place

As FluffyChicken quite rightly pointed out above, this site does post details and recommendations in regards to buying selling and payments, though i think as others have said already, we are all adults, we do not need a forum to hold our hands, and the suggestion that they should take responsibility for our actions is laughable. The world is not the happy safe place we would like it to be, every form of payment, yes that includes pp goods, cash, especially cash, are not 100% safe ways to trade anymore, even if you go medieval and trade a frame for a mule and a few chickens, there is no guarantee it wont drop dead and they wont lay. Just use common sense, people are too lazy these days and expect others to do everything for them, is it just so they have someone to blame if it goes wrong instead of taking responsibility themselves, who knows, does make good reading though