Retro Bikes of Quality

[doctor-bond]

If like me, you have of late lost some of your retro faith, then come on in and join the quality thread.

The rules are simple.

Quality Retro bikes get posted. Then you, the lovers of quality, comment on them, and chat about them.

Great bikes get seen and discussed, and we all learn more about how they were conceived, built, raced, and why they are of such quality.


FAQs:


Q: What is a quality Retro Bike anyway?
A: If you are not sure, do two things: 1. don't post a bike. 2. read the thread and begin to understand what quality means.

Q: How many quality bikes get posted?
A: There are no hard rules, but one bike of quality per week is a good rule of thumb, so even though you've built loads, don't post too many at once.

Q: "I've just built a sweet Kona: how do I post it in RBoQ?"
A: It is easy to post your Kona on the RBoQ thread -- just like any other thread. But unless it's a race winning, Tom Teesdale prototype, it might get derided by other RBoQ posters.


To start with we may have to resort to the RB archives, but I'm hoping that in time, fresh quality bikes will appear with reassuring regularity.

Okay, so here's one I dug out, a Bradbury Manitou FS from 1991. Built by a regular on this forum, it ticks most of the RetroBikes of Quality boxes: rare, elegant, hard to build, well executed.

I was drawn to this because of it's innovative nature: the frame shape, dropouts and brakes.

The original threads have loads of info, but it would be good to flag other links and add more info here: more about Doug, the quirky designs, race history, etc.

e.g. this looks like a test bed: were these innovations incorporated into later designs/Answer products?

Discuss.

Pics:

Threads with more pics:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... ht=manitou

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27147

 

[pete_mcc]

I recognise that bike...

Strange thing is many of the innovations on this bike were 're-invented' 15 years later by downhill bike designers:

1) 1.5" headsets, well this had the 1.25" evolution size which was a damn site bigger than the 1" of the time
2) 145 mm rear hub with dishless flanges. Now downhill bikes have 145mm/12mm.
3) 90mm bb shell. Modern full sussers now use extra wide bbs to allow more stable pivots and greater width tyres.
4) extra wide front forks-115mm to give greater wheel strength and stability. This and the rear spaced hub were design ques taken from other innovator Charlie Cunningham whose bikes should feature somewhere in this thread)

The bike was one of the most expensive packages available at the time as it was mostly hand fabricated, the forks being amongst the first produced and the rear suspension being amongst the first that truly worked in a very balanced way (far more so that the Serotta Pro-Flex with it's flex stem).
Many of the features were to be found on the answer bikes as the buy out occurred very shortly after the production of this bike. But most of the 'strange' features listed above were left off, probably as they were a bit too far out for people who were still getting used to the idea of suspension. Even after the buy out Doug Bradbury carried on developing for Answer and there are some great photos out there of him on one of these with prototype manitou 2 forks.
Sadly these, and the Answers, pushed the envelope as far as strength and weight and now it is rare to find a Manitou without cracks, this one has suffered only on the rear fork crown, but most have far more fatal flaws. But this is partly down to the weight weenie obsession of the time and partly down to a lack of understanding that people would be riding these 10 or 20 years later. They came from the same school as the Ritchey P20 1 season bike.

Doug Bradbury is now rightfully in the mountain bike hall of fame for his innovation and contribution to mountain biking but often innovators like him get swallowed or trampled by big companies. There are other bikes that had as many true innovations that got forgotten about- just look at the Pace RC100, it had an aheadset well before diacompe made it, it had modern compact geometry and drastically sloping top tube when most others had 'roadie' shapes (although this was probably copied from bikes like Cunninghams), it had rear mounted brakes on the forks well before answer manitou did, wide bb, through axle cranks (bullseye), one piece stem and steerer (see cannondale for a modern reinvention).

Far too often the true innovators get forgotten about due to marketing and hype. Just look at people like Roger Durham who created the thru axle cranks, shimano introduced their thru axle just after the patent on the Durham ran out. Pace create the ahead, diacompe patent theirs, shimano intro due theirs after the patent run out. The French company EGS created the 'shadow' rear mech, when they went bust shimano bought their patents and re-invented them. Many people did oval rings, shimano came along and f'ed it up with biopace. It's not all shimano, companies like specialized and cannondale did it too (who remembers the Freeriding copyright farce?)

I love this bike and all it stands for. It was a labour of love but sadly has never seen the dirt, partly because I'd be scare to hear a fatal crack as I ride and partly because it's just too damn big for my short little legs!

 

[bushpig]

Colour me a RBoQer!

 

[pete_mcc]

Ha! Is that all you got.....

 

[rumpfy]

If like me, you have of late lost some of your retro faith, then come on in and join the quality thread.

The rules are simple.

Quality Retro bikes get posted. Then you, the lovers of quality, comment on them, and chat about them.

Great bikes get seen and discussed, and we all learn more about how they were conceived, built, raced, and why they are of such quality.

Funny....this is all I ever really wanted to see here and on VRC. I hope this thread does well and people don't get bent when their bike doesn't qualify as a retro bike of quality.

 

[pete_mcc]

Funny....this is all I ever really wanted to see here and on VRC. I hope this thread does well and people don't get bent when their bike doesn't qualify as a retro bike of quality.

And that we don't get shouts of elitism. This shouldn't be about ownership or dick waving, more about show, tell, share and learn, a bit like the old 'Observer Books' from our childhood!

Admittedly there will be some guys like Bushpig who have some bikes that everyone on here either does or should kill to own, but likewise there are guys without the collections but with a massive amount of knowledge who can add enormously to this thread!

 

[ridevintagemtb]

I love this bike and all it stands for. It was a labour of love

Well said. Anything worth doing is worth taking the time to do right.

 

[Rod_Saetan]

Are those Macaw tyres on the Ritchey? Sweet.

 

[pete_mcc]

Well said. Anything worth doing is worth taking the time to do right.

It may be unridden but it is the best wall hanging work of art I've got. I can happily stare at it just as long as as any painting I own.
I spent many hours and many pay cheques sourcing the parts, especially as so many were so rare. It's not often you come across a 140mm bb, or a 115mm set of hand made Bradbury forks, or a set of 145 & 115mm ringle skewers but with time and patience and a great network of people helping me out I got it near perfect (although I know some people hate the mudguard). I think anything less would have been doing this bike a greater disservice than not riding it!

 

[bushpig]

MOre pics less talk!

Slim's old bike. (from Slim's bike shop in Fairfax - the retail location for the 80 or so Swifts made by Steve Potts and Mark Slate)