Orange (Formula?) Poole
- Thread starter retrobate
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Re: Re:
I know the Wade formula will always be deemed "perhaps" the most sought after, especially when a bike gets the reviews, the mag articles, and the team riders using it, i guess its hard not too.
This was superbly special imho though.
If you look at all the early British built Oranges, everyone is slightly different, im told that TWG were commissioned with the early work, hence at a guess why each frame builder has its mark on it.
Of course the timeline of the build obviously plays its part too.
This one in every respect is a competition bike of its time, fillet brazed and filed with Tange Prestige, no rack or mudguard eyes, seatstay U-Brake, Fillet brazed Fork. Every inch a Dave Yates.
But look again, and what you actually have is a Tushingham "Works Replica". Every detail is identical, the seat stay join, the rear canti hanger, the X-Brace, the rear triangle join, the twin bottle bosses, the frames angles, even the front fork fillet brazed, save for the canti boss studs instead of U Brake, perhaps one of the first builds by "Dave" after Tushingham.
Look again, and aside from the consumables that have perished over time, the seat and post, tyres, pedal and grips, every component is the same as the Tushingham "Works Replicas" spec list.
I would guess the year but given even the builders and all involved cant remember exactly what chance do we have, the Works Replica thanks to Adrian was posted here giving its spec list and price of £1350 from the 88/89 Buyers guide.
Perhaps the first Fully fledged Race bike to bear the Orange Brand from the transition from Tushingham....? Its quite a find imho.
brocklanders023":a5p2bnug said:
I know the Wade formula will always be deemed "perhaps" the most sought after, especially when a bike gets the reviews, the mag articles, and the team riders using it, i guess its hard not too.
This was superbly special imho though.
If you look at all the early British built Oranges, everyone is slightly different, im told that TWG were commissioned with the early work, hence at a guess why each frame builder has its mark on it.
Of course the timeline of the build obviously plays its part too.
This one in every respect is a competition bike of its time, fillet brazed and filed with Tange Prestige, no rack or mudguard eyes, seatstay U-Brake, Fillet brazed Fork. Every inch a Dave Yates.
But look again, and what you actually have is a Tushingham "Works Replica". Every detail is identical, the seat stay join, the rear canti hanger, the X-Brace, the rear triangle join, the twin bottle bosses, the frames angles, even the front fork fillet brazed, save for the canti boss studs instead of U Brake, perhaps one of the first builds by "Dave" after Tushingham.
Look again, and aside from the consumables that have perished over time, the seat and post, tyres, pedal and grips, every component is the same as the Tushingham "Works Replicas" spec list.
I would guess the year but given even the builders and all involved cant remember exactly what chance do we have, the Works Replica thanks to Adrian was posted here giving its spec list and price of £1350 from the 88/89 Buyers guide.
Perhaps the first Fully fledged Race bike to bear the Orange Brand from the transition from Tushingham....? Its quite a find imho.
Re: Re:
This might be the closest we may ever get to finding a Works Replica.
We shall have to play the waiting game and see.
What we could do with is a colour image of a Works Replica..... We all need to scan the early magazines........There must be something out there....?
This might be the closest we may ever get to finding a Works Replica.
We shall have to play the waiting game and see.
What we could do with is a colour image of a Works Replica..... We all need to scan the early magazines........There must be something out there....?
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What are your thoughts that it may even be a Tushingham frame that got re-branded after the change over mate?
As for value of this bike. In my opinion if the buyer got it for less that £600 they've done well. With better pictures or a viewing to confirm condition I could have seen it push 1k on a good day with enough committed bidders.
What are your thoughts that it may even be a Tushingham frame that got re-branded after the change over mate?
As for value of this bike. In my opinion if the buyer got it for less that £600 they've done well. With better pictures or a viewing to confirm condition I could have seen it push 1k on a good day with enough committed bidders.
Re: Re:
I think it could be more than a possibility, it would explain the subtle tweeks, like the stem and the front brake positioning, just these two small tweeks and the colour change, enough to morph the flagship Tushingham to the Flagship Orange. It was called a Works Replica, I guess there is a reason for this too.
I did email, Lester, Roger and Dave Yates, but as yet haven't got anywhere.
Its a crying shame the British never recorded its history like the Americans.
But I guess this is a small part of the history, and with so much going on at the time and new companies coming to market and trying to forge a path for themselves, its no surprise cards were played so close to there chests.
When you have companies like Overburys who dominated the early part of the Sport, building frames by hand one at a time, then a young upstart comes along with a bright idea and outsources to the Far east and to other UK companies for the higher end handbuilt stuff like M Steel, TWG. Even looking at the press releases, it states designed by Lester Noble handbuilt by the finest uk frame builder, and yet doesn't state who.
this is all reinforced by adverts and press releases, (Overburys, Tushingham, Orange). For Lester it was a hobby, turned into a business, shillings and pence, profit and loss, a passion for sure, but unlike Overburys he wasn't a frame builder, and did rely on others to ensure the Quality he wanted.)
I appreciate it was stated in the Press that Wade handbuilt the later black formulas, but it was rumoured at the time this wasn't actually the case. (aside from perhaps the first). The man hours and the set up costs to build such a small run of frames suggested it wasn't viable and was still outsourced even at this point, rumour or fact, we will never get to the bottom of it, the magazine propaganda said it, so it must be true.
This is still going on today, you only have to look at Fat Chance and its revival, yes he can hold a torch, but he isn't building the frames.
for many, building bicycles is a passion and a skill, an art if you like, but its still a business, and it has to show a profit, back then and even today marketing plays a huge role in a companies success, if you can capture the hearts and minds of the consumer, the orders will come in. Orange succeeded where others failed.
I guess those early secrets may always remain just that,....secrets.
brocklanders023":sew65cd7 said:
I think it could be more than a possibility, it would explain the subtle tweeks, like the stem and the front brake positioning, just these two small tweeks and the colour change, enough to morph the flagship Tushingham to the Flagship Orange. It was called a Works Replica, I guess there is a reason for this too.
I did email, Lester, Roger and Dave Yates, but as yet haven't got anywhere.
Its a crying shame the British never recorded its history like the Americans.
But I guess this is a small part of the history, and with so much going on at the time and new companies coming to market and trying to forge a path for themselves, its no surprise cards were played so close to there chests.
When you have companies like Overburys who dominated the early part of the Sport, building frames by hand one at a time, then a young upstart comes along with a bright idea and outsources to the Far east and to other UK companies for the higher end handbuilt stuff like M Steel, TWG. Even looking at the press releases, it states designed by Lester Noble handbuilt by the finest uk frame builder, and yet doesn't state who.
this is all reinforced by adverts and press releases, (Overburys, Tushingham, Orange). For Lester it was a hobby, turned into a business, shillings and pence, profit and loss, a passion for sure, but unlike Overburys he wasn't a frame builder, and did rely on others to ensure the Quality he wanted.)
I appreciate it was stated in the Press that Wade handbuilt the later black formulas, but it was rumoured at the time this wasn't actually the case. (aside from perhaps the first). The man hours and the set up costs to build such a small run of frames suggested it wasn't viable and was still outsourced even at this point, rumour or fact, we will never get to the bottom of it, the magazine propaganda said it, so it must be true.
This is still going on today, you only have to look at Fat Chance and its revival, yes he can hold a torch, but he isn't building the frames.
for many, building bicycles is a passion and a skill, an art if you like, but its still a business, and it has to show a profit, back then and even today marketing plays a huge role in a companies success, if you can capture the hearts and minds of the consumer, the orders will come in. Orange succeeded where others failed.
I guess those early secrets may always remain just that,....secrets.
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All the better for building the camp fire stories.
All the better for building the camp fire stories.
