On balance, I still am not a fan of e-bikes (previously known as ‘I just don’t get E bikes’)

[CassidyAce]

Oh no….another angle of debate enters the fray.…

Let’s stick to speed. The energy going into the ground of course goes up by the square of the velocity….

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php
So the extra 5mph of a 21kg E bike tanking into a curve in singletrack increases the energy by ..

beep beep beep calc calc calc …..

A LOT!

I think we can agree that the point of a wheel is that it doesn't hit the ground, it rolls along the ground, so it would be just a fraction of that extra kinetic energy that does any damage. However, more aggressive treads on tyres might have something to do with trail damage you're seeing.

 

[2manyoranges]

ah ... CA yep get that .... apart from when yo be brakin' my boy .... that's why you be skiddin' when you apply too much brake force when you be going fast ....then the energy around the contact patch becomes very important....although the kinetic energy is turned into heat and lost to the atmosphere under braking, the friction between the tyre and the surface is a key part of the system....er...otherwise you would not be stopping at all....tarmacadam doesn't fall apart as the friction increases to deal with the reduction in rotation of the wheel, but loose soil does....and that's why a heavier bike going faster UNDER BRAKING tears up the surface more. A considerable amount more.

 

[KermitGKona88]

Yep Nuclear is definitely the way to go, glowing lump of uranium betwixt your nether regions will make you go much faster...

 

[M124]

Probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I just don't get the hate on Ebikes.

For me the positives far outweigh the negatives

More people riding bikes the better

Allows people who enjoy the speed of downhill to get that fix without having to drive somewhere with hills

Allows people who don't have the fitness/health to enjoy biking off the beaten path.

The argument that Ebikes do slightly more trail damage doesn't wash with me, walking, dogs, pushbikes etc all cause damage and people always seem to want to draw the line just the other side of where they stand.


More needs to be done on battery tech and recycling but overall Ebikes are a good for biking if it gets more people out on the trails

 

[2manyoranges]

ah ... no hate ... just don't like seeing those piles of defunct batteries and dead motors in the workshops ... and the trail damage issue of course applies to all users (including badgers) but it's just a fact that we have more stutter bumps emerging on the trails I frequently ride - before there were none remotely resembling the stutter bumps on Alpine DH tracks (heavy bikes heavy braking) but now there are.

 

[M124]

ah ... no hate ... just don't like seeing those piles of defunct batteries and dead motors in the workshops ... and the trail damage issue of course applies to all users (including badgers) but it's just a fact that we have more stutter bumps emerging on the trails I frequently ride - before there were none remotely resembling the stutter bumps on Alpine DH tracks (heavy bikes heavy braking) but now there are.

Could that just be down to the increased use over the last few years with the boom in cycling due to covid lock downs etc?

Sounds like we need some Ebikers who can throw some sacks of dirt over their crossbars and ferry them to the trails .

P. S. Not an ebiker myself BTW, but my heavy downhill bike with 2.8 tyres probably have similar effect

 

[brocklanders023]

No time to read the whole thread but I couldn't see the point, until I watch a bloke fly up Embsay Crag like it was a canal path. That made me realise why, although it's not for me for now as I enjoy testing myself physically when riding and increasing fitness.

 

[CassidyAce]

ah ... CA yep get that .... apart from when yo be brakin' my boy .... that's why you be skiddin' when you apply too much brake force when you be going fast ....then the energy around the contact patch becomes very important....although the kinetic energy is turned into heat and lost to the atmosphere under braking, the friction between the tyre and the surface is a key part of the system....er...otherwise you would not be stopping at all....tarmacadam doesn't fall apart as the friction increases to deal with the reduction in rotation of the wheel, but loose soil does....and that's why a heavier bike going faster UNDER BRAKING tears up the surface more. A considerable amount more.

At the risk of sounding pedantic (or even being pedantic), it's still just a fraction of that kinetic energy that's going into the ground. But fair point: greater friction will tear up those sorts of surfaces more. Perhaps, though, that leads to a wider point that it's not just e-bikes but modern mountain bikes in general that have, as it were, become too good for the good of the terrain? After all, if modern 29ers, with wider tyres at lower tyre pressures offer more traction and more speed, and hydraulic brakes offer sharper stopping power, then wear and tear on the ground is going to be more severe all round. E-bikes might be the worst of it but are they just the worst of what is now a bad bunch?

 

[benjabbi]

They're fun, I won't deny that. I've had a good laugh on demo e-bikes a few times. I won't buy one, a good one is fecking expensive, they're not exactly problem free, from what I've seen it's a case of 'when' not 'if' something will break. I can fix a normal bike in the garage with minimal tools and outlay. 'Error code 15' not so much!

 

[2manyoranges]

They're fun, I won't deny that. I've had a good laugh on demo e-bikes a few times. I won't buy one, a good one is fecking expensive, they're not exactly problem free, from what I've seen it's a case of 'when' not 'if' something will break. I can fix a normal bike in the garage with minimal tools and outlay. 'Error code 15' not so much!

yep....and I liked the recent recall in the 'States for E-bikes which were catching fire.

Angry manager: 'Why are you late for work?...'
Worker '...my bike caught fire....'