Neither a bicycle nor a motorcycle

[greencat]

Ebikes won't be the downfall of "normal" bikes. Normal bikes are just too cheap and plentiful to disappear. There might be vastly fewer new non-ebikes to buy eventually though, but given this is a site dedicated to secondhand bikes, I don't suppose we'll worry too much about that.

My ebikes means that I don't have a car and I can do the hilly commute to the nearest town in a timely manner, carry all of the household shopping home and go and do a physically demanding job (with a near life long chronic illness) without completely exhausting myself by cycling home uphill in the pissing driving rain at 9pm at night. I keep my push bikes for fun and leisure. Ebikes aren't that expensive either. My first was 350 quid, the second is a motor attached to an existing bike (again about 380 quid).

To address the article, I appreciate the guy has to submit copy and get the chatteratti chattering to get those subscriptions/ad dollars rolling in, but most people don't give a shit about this stuff. They simply want to get from A-B in a way that works for them. Some would do it on a flying carpet if they could. If some of the things above weren't true for me, I'd still be riding my push bike for my commuting needs (as I did for many years). I don't care about the status of an ebike - it's just a useful tool.

Anything that gets people on two wheels is good - whether push bike, ebike, escooter or motorbike. All of these options take up less room on the road and are less polluting than nearly all of the four wheeled personal transport alternatives.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

There are stupid e bikers, there are also e bikers, just as there are stupid and non stupid cyclists, mountain bikers, bmxers, runners, walkers, ramblers, motorbikers, scooterists, motorists. We're just people, just like everyone else. Everyone has an opinion and everyone seems to think that they are correct.
I ride my ebike instead of my car, you're welcome, I ride it respectably, fast when I can, slow when I can't. Some ride like idiots, but then many people do many things like idiots, because they are idiots. There isn't an idiot test for anything as as I'm aware. There probably should be.

All of the above, I did try to make the distinction between idiots and "normal" people. I think e bikes have there place.

 

[Madmax1993]

You all seem to be discussing ebikes that are currently illegal like the surron mob and other e-mopeds or illegal ebike kits. The current legal threshold is 15.5mph and the electric cuts out, and a 250W power output. At these levels, an ebike is no more dangerous than a regular bicycle, aside from a slightly increased weight. But if you're all moaning about categories that are illegal, your problem is with a minority (yes, it is still a minority) of idiots and their behaviour, not *ebikes* as a huge umbrella term and their very existence.

 

[d8mok]

I’m talking about illegal and also legal in my posts.

Legal Ebikes have been adopted by the chav brigade in a big way.

But even ‘riders’ who own ebikes seem to have very little skills to back up the added speed. Usually speed on a bicycle comes alongside talent and some awareness which goes hand in hand with saddle time. Similair to the ones who go out and buy a R1 as their first motorbike and crack their pants rather than spending time building skills.

But ebikes allow people with little or no awareness to ride at speeds they wouldn’t normally do.

Trail centres are full of the ones who blast past you on a fire path climb to only hold everyone up on the good bits. Or on canal paths find themselves going to quickly for a corner and panic and brake right in front of the long queue of other riders trying to get past the 15.5mph road block.

 

[grey-beard]

It is a big subject and something that will rage on I'm sure, I agree with d8mok about the lack of skills, I see it regularly with elderly people on ebikes, which is great in lots of ways, but not when they can't handle the ease at which they can go too fast and also the weight of the bike, I recently had to help a gentleman up off the ground who had stopped very quickly at a crossing, didn't realize how fast he was going, fell over and couldn't pick the bike up? But then I did have a carpark close call, when a young lady in her new electric car, I think it was a Hyundai? Almost went into the back of me and my car as I was loading up the shopping. She apologized and said it accelerated much faster than her old car and she couldn't turn the wheel fast enough? It's the future kids, it's electric, it's fast and it's silent...

 

[Madmax1993]

But ebikes allow people with little or no awareness to ride at speeds they wouldn’t normally do.

15.5mph, for a legal ebike? I'm not the fittest of riders, but on a flattish route like my commute I can maintain an average speed that's slightly higher than that on my 'acoustic' bike. I do not consider this threshold overly dangerous as it's a speed that's easily achievable without motor assistance. As a motorcyclist too, I find the R1 comparison laughable. I agree with you that the R1 example is hugely dangerous, but the difference between an R1 and an SV650 or other beginner friendly full licence bikes is much bigger than the difference between a bicycle and a legal pedal assist ebike.
As a non e-biker myself, I think we frame ebikes as a bike alternative and it doesn't make sense to us, but really it's about making cycling accessible to people who are currently *non* cyclists. Even the retro bikers in this thread who have ebikes seem to use them in situations where they would use their cars (longer commutes, larger payload situations, time critical journeys, turning up dry rather than sweaty), rather than the situations where they would ride acoustic.

 

[kingoffootball]

It is a big subject and something that will rage on I'm sure, I agree with d8mok about the lack of skills, I see it regularly with elderly people on ebikes, which is great in lots of ways, but not when they can't handle the ease at which they can go too fast and also the weight of the bike, I recently had to help a gentleman up off the ground who had stopped very quickly at a crossing, didn't realize how fast he was going, fell over and couldn't pick the bike up? But then I did have a carpark close call, when a young lady in her new electric car, I think it was a Hyundai? Almost went into the back of me and my car as I was loading up the shopping. She apologized and said it accelerated much faster than her old car and she couldn't turn the wheel fast enough? It's the future kids, it's electric, it's fast and it's silent...

I read some interesting research that not propelling the bike through pedalling reduces a rider's connection and awareness of the other aspects of control. I'll try to find a link to that. I'm sure the impact of that can be alleviated through training/practice (like a motorcycle) but it's still an interesting thing to think about.

 

[Madmax1993]

I read some interesting research that not propelling the bike through pedalling reduces a rider's connection and awareness of the other aspects of control. I'll try to find a link to that. I'm sure the impact of that can be alleviated through training/practice (like a motorcycle) but it's still an interesting thing to think about.

Once again, the legal ebikes in the UK are 'pedal assist' only, so whilst the motor amplifies the effort you put in, your pedalling input still determines how fast you go. It's not the same as twisting a throttle on a moped or motorbike.

Can we all agree that e-scooters are a real menace used by truly lazy bastards?

 

[kingoffootball]

Once again, the legal ebikes in the UK are 'pedal assist' only, so whilst the motor amplifies the effort you put in, your pedalling input still determines how fast you go. It's not the same as twisting a throttle on a moped or motorbike.

Can we all agree that e-scooters are a real menace used by truly lazy bastards?

I am aware of that. Until I find the research, I can't check whether they factored that in or whether they were just investigating non-pedal assist bikes (It was US research) but purely from my experience of power assist I would expect it to be the same, but to a lesser effect.

 

[d8mok]

15.5mph, for a legal ebike? I'm not the fittest of riders, but on a flattish route like my commute I can maintain an average speed that's slightly higher than that on my 'acoustic' bike. I do not consider this threshold overly dangerous as it's a speed that's easily achievable without motor assistance. As a motorcyclist too, I find the R1 comparison laughable. I agree with you that the R1 example is hugely dangerous, but the difference between an R1 and an SV650 or other beginner friendly full licence bikes is much bigger than the difference between a bicycle and a legal pedal assist ebike.
As a non e-biker myself, I think we frame ebikes as a bike alternative and it doesn't make sense to us, but really it's about making cycling accessible to people who are currently *non* cyclists. Even the retro bikers in this thread who have ebikes seem to use them in situations where they would use their cars (longer commutes, larger payload situations, time critical journeys, turning up dry rather than sweaty), rather than the situations where they would ride acoustic.

The people who are riding ebikes can’t maintain 15mph that’s why they are riding them. People who can maintain a decent speed or have a certain level of fitness ride normal bikes and nobody will convince me otherwise. That’s the point I’m making , put them on a normal bike and tell them to go ride for 2 hours and come back I bet many wouldn’t average anywhere near 15mph even on flat. But on a ebike they can blast around as much as they like till the battery dies knocking people out of the way as they go.

To maintain a 15mph average off road takes a decent level of fitness. Fitness which comes with saddle time. Saddle time builds awareness and skills.