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Shame they couldn't finish the rest of the frame...
MBK Special pro…thoughts?
- Thread starter sefton1275gt
- Start date
Does anyone have any MBK brochures showing these "three top models" mentioned above? The MBK brochures I've seen have had nothing equivalent to the SP/Team Champion, though as we see above, it existed. So far as the presence or absence of a number plate tab, I thnk Legrandfromage is right: This was an option, like the chrome on the rear stays. With a little searching one can find photos of examples of this model without one or both of these options.
'87 catalogue with 3 mentioned top-flight models "semi-handbuilt". There is an earlier catalogue mentioning the custom hand-built unit with a few pictures and more details of what is built there - need to trawl a bit more.
https://www.velovintageagogo.com/t1868-catalogue-motobecane-mbk-1987
https://www.velovintageagogo.com/t1868-catalogue-motobecane-mbk-1987
This is interesting, thanks. So two things jump out for me: First, there are mentioned three higher-end models built on "semi-artisnal" Columbus SL frames--whatever this means--with different component mixes, without specifying them for any of these models. (I would not assume that "Super Record" indicates a Campagnolo group, as that brand is not mentioned among the component manufacturers). Because this is 1987-88 we can assume that no Simplex SLJ derailleurs were used and that the top setup likely employed a titanium Sachs model.
No mention is made of an "a la carte" model, or a team replica, so assuming that these were in fact offered the advertisement simply doesn't cover the entire range. I would like to see those bikes.
As for the bike on auction, this must be a 1985, essentially a 1984 SP/La Redoute team bike repainted in MBK livery. Personally I find it beautiful and certainly rarer than the familiar blue Motobecane version.
No mention is made of an "a la carte" model, or a team replica, so assuming that these were in fact offered the advertisement simply doesn't cover the entire range. I would like to see those bikes.
As for the bike on auction, this must be a 1985, essentially a 1984 SP/La Redoute team bike repainted in MBK livery. Personally I find it beautiful and certainly rarer than the familiar blue Motobecane version.
Frames would / most certainly be hand-built. Then put in a more "run of the mill" assembly line, with the best looking French girls wearing suspenders to assemble it and cable it up instead of old blokes in blue overalls smoking and stinking of Gauloise and ordering the new trainee to buy fresh croissants in the morning. That's what semi-artisanal French style means to me.
I'll trawl a bit more, I've definitely cast my eyes over more detailed MBK catalogues. It's France - everything can be negotiated but nothing guaranteed and of course money talks.
I really don't know what lugged frames other than CF or aluminum wouldn't have been handmade--all required a person with a brazing torch. But some frames might get more hand finishing--cleanup, lug filing, etc. Perhaps this is what they meant. On the other hand, earlier documents, pre-MBK, clearly state that certain frames were "sur measure," or made to customer dimensions. That was usually done in a separate work area. This service may have been a casualty of the Yamaha takeover. Judging from MBKs 1985 catalog, there was tremendous paring down of models and options, especially conspicuous at the upper end. And although MBK continued to sponsor race teams, it's not at all certain that they made any new team frames. That would have required retaining the custom frame shop. Much simpler to farm the work out to CNC, Gemini--Meral?
Not so sure, by the mid-80s the writing is on the wall about the industry, the road pro-teams doing relatively well and getting exposure. There would have been a market. My guess is there was an injection by Yamaha and re-structuring in the mid-80s meant a re-valuation of what was important.
Trade laws and Union action may have influenced the re-structuring too. Releasing knowledgeable staff out of the work force may not have been on the agenda. It's hard to say. It's almost 40 years ago. The catalogue I included above does state use of carbon fibre, so in a way it demonstrates an age old need to evolve at the top end to eventually trickle down. I doubt experienced staff would have been on the firing line. Probably the trainee who got the croissants in the morning had it first out of the door.
I'm personally fascinated by the French bike industry, the actors, the players, the riders, but over and over again I think it really does boil down for us mere mortels to evaluate what we see in front of us and what is in our hands. We know for damn sure they are practically obsolete, end of the family tree, but are quality and still worth saving but not necessarily investing huge $€£ in. They can be a bargain for someone willing to get dirt under the finger nails in terms of ride quality.
Trade laws and Union action may have influenced the re-structuring too. Releasing knowledgeable staff out of the work force may not have been on the agenda. It's hard to say. It's almost 40 years ago. The catalogue I included above does state use of carbon fibre, so in a way it demonstrates an age old need to evolve at the top end to eventually trickle down. I doubt experienced staff would have been on the firing line. Probably the trainee who got the croissants in the morning had it first out of the door.
I'm personally fascinated by the French bike industry, the actors, the players, the riders, but over and over again I think it really does boil down for us mere mortels to evaluate what we see in front of us and what is in our hands. We know for damn sure they are practically obsolete, end of the family tree, but are quality and still worth saving but not necessarily investing huge $€£ in. They can be a bargain for someone willing to get dirt under the finger nails in terms of ride quality.
My question as a classic bike enthusiast is in what happened rather than why. Corporations do what they do, and in slight disagreement with you I would add that experienced and expert personnel are often included in early staff cuts because they are the most expensive employees. Sometimes they are cut just short of qualifying for a pension, quite deliberately. And if their expertise in an area that has already been determined to be irrelevant to future plans they are regarded as expensve bodies to be thrown overboard, and it's more efficient to train brand-new people. Yamaha was not interested in that factory for bicycles, and we can see what they intended by what they did: Today the Saint Quentin facility makes only motorcycles and scooters. That was always the plan. It was never about responding to changes in the bicycle marketplace, unless you mean its irrelevance in their view. It was about allowing the business to unwind within a few years and increase production of its core product.
The original owner of my Motobecane, a former employee, is reportedly alive and might be willing to answer some questions about the waning days of the company as a bicycle manufacturer and what models and services were dropped. I assume that my bike, a gift to him from the company, was given on the occasion of his retirement. He could be one of these experienced but expensive workers they cut loose around 1984-85. I will try to contact him.
The original owner of my Motobecane, a former employee, is reportedly alive and might be willing to answer some questions about the waning days of the company as a bicycle manufacturer and what models and services were dropped. I assume that my bike, a gift to him from the company, was given on the occasion of his retirement. He could be one of these experienced but expensive workers they cut loose around 1984-85. I will try to contact him.
That would be superb. It's not so long ago, and thanks to an historian here @grantoury that as a cycling enthusiasts and nerd I can't answer all questions but pointed me more into historical documented fact. I will say this, fortunately, and perhaps because of Frencyness, there is a lot of documentation about, but there are holes. I still remain and stand firm that mid-80s almost anything would go to build a wanted a bike for a customer who asked for something and was willing to pay. The starey eyes of the pros in peleton and showing off on an amateur level is fundamental to this fashion bicycle industry to create sales.
You are totally right that a shift in technology can "legitimise" an axe over work staff - but was that really the case here? It's close with TVT around the corner etc. The other usual way is the "salami cut" - a bit everywhere. I still see little reason to axe the handbuilt side till the day came to axe Pro team sponsorship regardless of a shift of technology. They still had to stand by their brand when all said and done and would have had a minimum of expert staff to oversee any sub-contracting.
A first hand input if you could obtain it would be wonderful. Not only for this thread, but for a more complete understanding of the state of affairs at this period. It's sadly a period of the beginning of the end. The most touching thing I read about the decline was saying "it was unstoppable".
You are totally right that a shift in technology can "legitimise" an axe over work staff - but was that really the case here? It's close with TVT around the corner etc. The other usual way is the "salami cut" - a bit everywhere. I still see little reason to axe the handbuilt side till the day came to axe Pro team sponsorship regardless of a shift of technology. They still had to stand by their brand when all said and done and would have had a minimum of expert staff to oversee any sub-contracting.
A first hand input if you could obtain it would be wonderful. Not only for this thread, but for a more complete understanding of the state of affairs at this period. It's sadly a period of the beginning of the end. The most touching thing I read about the decline was saying "it was unstoppable".
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Of course I have no idea how they made their personnel cuts; I merely state what can happen. Another thing I've learned in my years working with companies is that many outcomes can easily be explained as mistakes in judgment, simple errors in interpreting facts, wrong assumptions about the future, poor planning. I deal with this almost daily. IOW, anything can happen.
At the risk of drifting off topic or seeming to hijack this discussion and wear out my welcome as a new member, and a blasted Yank at that, I will post some photos of my bike, made during the very period under discussion--unless someone objects.
At the risk of drifting off topic or seeming to hijack this discussion and wear out my welcome as a new member, and a blasted Yank at that, I will post some photos of my bike, made during the very period under discussion--unless someone objects.
