MBK Special pro…thoughts?

[mikestr]

Whoa! If you are referring to any of my comments you have this completely backwards. Your bike is definitely, without any doubt, a genuine team bike, or an exact replica sold by MBK, and is rare and (in my view) highly desirable--and someone should buy it. (I almost bought it myself, before you did, but decided that it was lightly too small for me.) My question, or one of them, is whether these were ever sold to the public. The fact that no MBK literature has so far been turned up that mentions this model, it leads me to think that you have an actual team bike and not a replica. In further support of the argument I offered the information that Motobecane had gone bankrupt by 1984 and had probably ended production of team replica bikes--I noted that I had not seen an actual 1984 Team Champion, or "La Redoute Replica," only actual team bikes. I believe that the "Special Pro" I have was the best they could do by 1984, and probably offered mainly to employees.

Again, everyone: This is the real deal and a fabulous bike. Our friend here should not have to struggle to sell it!

 

[marshalllucky]

OK thanks sorry if I upset you , just one more photo that illustrates even the Motobecane / MBK brand identity confusion. Here is Roche again on the 85 TDF on a 85 colour frame with the older Motobecane decals and note the clip on race number and top mounted rear cable guides , maybe an earlier frame resprayed ? , I wonder how many bikes he got through on that tour?.

 

[mikestr]

As a corallary, I would also state that in 1985, the nominal year of this team bike, MBK may not have had sufficient parts or personnel to outfit a team with all new bikes, nor should it have been necessary. I see absolutely no difference between the frames of these MBK team bikes and ones made in the 1981-83 period. They may simply have updated them with new paint and components. Only someone working in the factory would know. But there was no further development on this model as Motobecane went down the tubes. It was good enough and needed no changes.

 

[mikestr]

Right: Teams had to have extra bikes in reserve, probably for each rider, or at least in different sizes. My guess is that yours was one of those "reserve" bikes, as it showed no signs of use when sold to you. I still have that auction description--I know the history!

You didn't upset me at all--I was concerned that you felt that your bike was being devalued--au contraire.

 

[foz]

Just read through the whole thread, and got reminded why I like this forum
Loads of very interesting info, even if impossible to confirm either way, and great pics of old bikes
I am aware of motobecane and MBK, however the first thing that comes to mind is always the fluo pink/white/yellow lotto team bikes from the 90's - how do they fit into all of this? Sorry for going a little OT!

 

[mikestr]

Yes, I'm learning how great this forum is. The level of friendliness and civility is especially encouraging.

I can't add very much about later MBK products, except that they co-sponsored other teams after 1985 and supplied bikes. Whether they built those frames or not--no idea. I probably know far less than someone living in a country where MBK sold bikes. Not here. I would just say that as a general pattern companies that built professional race bikes also made similar or identical models available through normal sales channels, and the con verse is true. There was some hint in the MBK brochure posted earlier. But the "semi-artisanal" frames might themselves have been subbed out to other shops, as obviously could the team frames. Because we're discussing later years perhaps the chances of getting information are better.

 

[Woz]

Daft question(s):

- has anyone actually unearthered an undisputed team bike? Kind-of regardless of period-ish, just to see how 'becane / MBK actually stamped rider names, if at all? Surely then we get a drift of what is actual team and not right?
- for the life of me, I don't see the catalogue being the bible nor the instruction manual for the workshop, it's just a different world back then and things come and go. Surely some slack must be given right? Even the pro-racers probably wouldn't have been too picky.
- is it not normal too to have a few show bikes spread around the place to promote sales? I don't think not being able to prove a team bike is a team bike necessarily detracts any value - would anyone want to ride an utterly thrashed frameset that had an hard time?
- with a impeding company take over, I would image some gear found it's way going out of the back door. Gifts, etc. To me this is only natural prior to the bean counters doing the full inventory and assets more-or-less frozen until the sale to Yamaha was completed.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

This is indeed a great forum. Friendly and civil with some very knowledgeable people.

 

[marshalllucky]

View attachment 800790

Daft question(s):

- has anyone actually unearthered an undisputed team bike? Kind-of regardless of period-ish, just to see how 'becane / MBK actually stamped rider names, if at all? Surely then we get a drift of what is actual team and not right?
- for the life of me, I don't see the catalogue being the bible nor the instruction manual for the workshop, it's just a different world back then and things come and go. Surely some slack must be given right? Even the pro-racers probably wouldn't have been too picky.
- is it not normal too to have a few show bikes spread around the place to promote sales? I don't think not being able to prove a team bike is a team bike necessarily detracts any value - would anyone want to ride an utterly thrashed frameset that had an hard time?
- with a impeding company take over, I would image some gear found it's way going out of the back door. Gifts, etc. To me this is only natural prior to the bean counters doing the full inventory and assets more-or-less frozen until the sale to Yamaha was completed.

I did post the link to this verified team bike on the second page if anyone wants to click into it but the riders name was on drive side top tube .

 

[mikestr]

You probably understate the case, if anything. Motobecane was especially inconsistent in this respect--even frame parts were substituted on the basis of availability, and component choices changed mid-year--or more often. Then there were customer requests and those gifts you mentioned. The catalogs are approximately correct, but to say more would be a bit naîve. Sometimes there are flat-out errors, such as in one edition that stated a Cinelli fork crown. That model never had this. These things were written by publicists, not product managers. Having said that, the US importer, Ben Lawee, was a very demanding man. I didn't know him, but a close friend of mine did, and I've read plenty about him. He specified, in considerable detail, the configuration of the models he imported. So there wasn't much in the way of surprise substitution of parts on Motobecanes sold here. And there was no customizable "Special Pro" mentioned in the brochures, and I doubt in any dealer communications. But frame details might vary, as there was no US-specific production line for frames. How this applies to the later MBK bikes I don't know, but it may have been much the same.

Value is another question. Some people want exactly what their favorite rider used, even though this might be impossible. Or they want exactly what they saw in an ad or catalog. For reasons you gave, this may not always be so simple. For me and, I suspect many others, something authentically from the period, as it was built and sold--or upgraded at that time-- is always appreciated, and the weirder it is probably the better.