Help with an old PT Stallard!

[lunker]

Hi guys, I am from Australia and joined your forum to try and get a little help on a lovely old British frame I acquired.

It is a PT Stallard, and is absolutely beautiful. I've never come across one in Australia before. I want to restore her a little so would love to find out the rough year she was made, and what may have been on her.

She came to me with a GB Stem (with allen key bolt) and handlebars, which I figure may be original, but also first gen. Shimano 600 Arabesque touring group. Never come across a 3 arm Shimano 600 crank either! Those bits are from around 1976/77ish, from what I gather. Now I've read that he stopped making frames in the late 60s.

So I'd love to know if this was a one off made in the 70s, or actually from the 60's and just been retrofitted with Shimano bits.

I have provided some pictures of lugs, serial, dropouts etc. and hope someone can help me!

Much appreciated

Chris

 

[keithglos]

Re:

Frame looks around mid 60s, not much later.
I remember Percy racing, and producing some good frames.

Keith

 

[Jonny69]

That style Nervex lug was available from 1955 according to Classic Lightweights, so no earlier than that. It's a very classic British build, but what tells us that it's not 1950s is the use Campagnolo dropouts which, as I understand it, would have been eye-wateringly expensive in the 1950s because of import duty.

 

[Jonny69]

Speaking of Classic Lightweights, they rarely fail to deliver...

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/stallard.html

 

[keithglos]

Campagnolo dropouts which, as I understand it, would have been eye-wateringly expensive in the 1950s because of import duty.

In 1955 I sold a number of Armstrong frames built to spec by Bill Gameson, Nervex Pro, silver brazed, retail £9.50, Campagnolo ends were extra 10 shillings (50p).

Campagnolo GS gear was £4, SF QR hubs £3.30.

If you can find Holdsworthy "AIDS" book which shows products and retail prices
for mid 1950s it will confirm this.

Keith

 

[Robbied196]

A great cyclist, great builder and founder of the BLRC

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2001/au ... theringham

The V-CC have copys of Sandys Holdworths 'AIDS' catalogue

http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org. ... ary%29.pdf

 

[Big Block]

there were similar threads on a number of forums seeking details on this frame.
the information seems to lead to 1964 as the frame date

Z is for Zacopane (the model) 4 is the year, 6 is the decade, 004 is the build number for the year.
reposting it here in case someone else is searching for how to get a PT Stallard frame build date

from Wolverhampton Archives and Local Studies on The National Archives

Every frame or complete bicycle that was produced in P T Stallard's workshop between 1945 and 1972 was followed by a growing bundle of records, and virtually all of them survive. These bundles record the history of each item produced, from the inquiry to the delivery, and often well beyond. Repair dockets were collated with the production records, and we can see cycles being repaired or refurbished, sometimes during a decade or more from the date of delivery. The owner of a Stallard frame will almost certainly be able to trace the number stamped on it in these records. Some production took place also before the second world war, but of this only one tiny glimpse survives. The last entry in the series refers to a pre-war Stallard frame that was returned for re-enamelling in 1960! The numbers are organised in annual series, according to the year in which the frames were made. From 1945 until 1947 the first digit of the frame number corresponds to the last digit of the year, followed by one, two or three digits, giving the actual production number. From 1948 until 1957 the year number is derived in the same way, but now followed by three digits, so that the first frame is number 8001 etc. From 1958 until 1972 the year is indicated by the last two digits of the year in inverse order, giving 1958 as 85 etc. The only exception is 1967 which is given as 67. In later years the model was indicated in addition, by way of a prefix, without interfering with the sequence of the frame numbers. For instance, a Montlhery built in 1961 might be given the reference M16276.

 

[Excel]

for further information on Percy Stallard as the cyclist and frame builder there's an interesting film on DVD and VHS called "Up The League" all about the founding fathers of the BLRC.......not sure if it's still available, I have a copy somewhere

Griff