Do modern groupsets last less?

[TOMAS]

My 2 cents from running a service/repair workshop... Over the last decade I wouldn't really say that quality has gone down-hill... I think Shimano went a bit iffy between 2002-2010 but you are asking last decade, which is 10 speed and greater imo. Yes the new Ultegra & Dura Ace bonded cranks do split, had my very first one in this weekend with a hard to identify 'click' which turns out it is movement from starting to come unbonded.

I don't think 12 speed has really caught on yet, cost, availability, a pandemic, a need for differing wheel/freehub all hindering this... XT 11 speed is pretty solid imo and a 11-46T rear range surely must be sufficient for most, certainly enough for here in the UK, I myself and many of my customers happily run this and it's built to last! Also absolutelky gutted to have a 12-speeder in last week and for the first time in my knowledge, Shimano are now running cartridge bearing hubs!

I won't really get involved in discussing Sram other than to say it fails, fails fast and is often over-complicated - in my mind, Shimano just makes sense - almost liken it to the difference between working on German cars and those from the far east.

 

[eri]

What a bunch of whiners! I think current stuff is crazy super reliable.

I destroy grips, seats, chains wear, disc pads last a year. Suspension needs regular maintenance but for me drivetrains are lasting longer than ever under much heavier use.

Have you tried using a small chain tool to break a kmc x11 chain? I had to use pliers on the handle to overcome the hardened rivets. I’ve got an xx1 chain and cassette that have survived >2500 miles of muddy pnw mtb. This modern stuff is fantastically durable and is telepathically good compared to xt thumb shifters (which were terrible) Currently running xx1 11 speed shifter and derailleur and love the ergos, I think perfect. Big cog on cassette is soft but I mostly avoid it. Main thing, with cleaner lubes my chain stays much cleaner than bitd.

Brake blocks used to melt in the rain, the grit would wear through rim sidewalls, wheels only last a year. Now my rear ss wheel is 6 years old (my only mtb for 5 years.)

Deore xt indexed steering?

So I think you complainers are just completely wrong and modern stuff is awesome.

Edit: also… I had a stripped sram rd hanger bolt and was able to order the part and replace. The high end sram stuff is exquisite and fully rebuildable. Sadly my local shop is utterly incompetent so I need to do it all myself but at least sram will sell to me. Shimano won’t even sell small parts to the public and in my experience the availability was terrible even before Covid.

 

[d8mok]

I’m sure people on here like to believe that modern isn’t better but in reality it is. We all like our retro bikes but don’t go all misty eyed and think they perform/last better than new tech.

 

[rochester21]

Forgot were in a new/old tech better thing.
There is already an ebike ranting topic
And a 29er rant topic.

It's OK, keep them coming. This is a great thread.

I have loads of old 90s stuff broken and worn out in boxes in a shed.
It wasn't brilliant even back then, it may have seemed sometimes.

In the defense of 90s bike stuff, i've seen how the british maintain their bikes. OK more like not maintain their bikes. Let's be open about this, it rains so much in England yet nobody seems to clean and lube their chain, never heard so many squeaky chains before i lived there.

 

[rochester21]

What a bunch of whiners! I think current stuff is crazy super reliable.

I destroy grips, seats, chains wear, disc pads last a year. Suspension needs regular maintenance but for me drivetrains are lasting longer than ever under much heavier use.

Have you tried using a small chain tool to break a kmc x11 chain? I had to use pliers on the handle to overcome the hardened rivets. I’ve got an xx1 chain and cassette that have survived >2500 miles of muddy pnw mtb. This modern stuff is fantastically durable and is telepathically good compared to xt thumb shifters (which were terrible) Currently running xx1 11 speed shifter and derailleur and love the ergos, I think perfect. Big cog on cassette is soft but I mostly avoid it. Main thing, with cleaner lubes my chain stays much cleaner than bitd.

Brake blocks used to melt in the rain, the grit would wear through rim sidewalls, wheels only last a year. Now my rear ss wheel is 6 years old (my only mtb for 5 years.)

Deore xt indexed steering?

So I think you complainers are just completely wrong and modern stuff is awesome.

Well the new stuff works better when new but what about 20 years later?
If you do 10.000 miles a year and ride hard nothing will last you long, and have you seen how expensive a 12 speed cassette and chain are? With that money alone i could buy a totally functional vintage mtb, even if in ave to buy new tires for it its still cheaper than repairing a 12 speed transmission.

So modern bikes may be good but.... they are becoming extremely expensive to fix and maintain. And how come the old steel bikes from the 90s can still be had for like a 100 quid and still run if they where so bad?

Bad gear doesn't last 20 years, when I go outside anywhere in Europe I see old bikes all the time, they aren't even maintained but they keep going in the hands of careless commuters.

 

[rochester21]

I’m sure people on here like to believe that modern isn’t better but in reality it is. We all like our retro bikes but don’t go all misty eyed and think they perform/last better than new tech.

Let's just agree on that.
What about cost? With the money i spend on a 12 speed chain or cassette, i can get 2-3 8/9 speed parts for the bikes i already have.
One more issue- i cannot help but hate the look and engineering behind 1X drivetrains.
Who would ever want a bike whose cassette is almost as big as the wheel itself? It just looks wrong.
Modern mountain bikes look like tractors, change my mind.

 

[rochester21]

Just the 6 cogs on ma wagon...

I like that room.
Just old bikes and cassette decks stuffed together, sort of like a retro nut's treasure cave. Thumbs up from me and thanks for the info.
Still, does STI work with an italian cassette from the 80s?

 

[rochester21]

You're right about the weight thing, it's never bothered me really. I had a conversation with a big guy at work recently who was very proud of his full carbon road bike, "it's sooo light" but I said that I imagine the combined weight of him plus bike and me on my diy ebike will be about the same, he wasn't pleased.

The notion that fat people cannot enjoy a lighter bike is just incorrect.
Let me explain. I weight now 135 kg and much enjoy riding my 9.5 kg road bike iver my old 14 kg vintage mtb. It's because the road bike is so easy to mive that i end up being much faster and doing more km on it than on the slower bike.

I mean sure, had i been thinner it would have been even better, but again, it is simply discrimination to assume an overweight person cannot distinguish between a bad bike and a good bike simply because he is heavier that other people.

If bike weight was never an issue, why does everyone want light bikes?

It's because a light bike helps you go up that hill no matter what your weight is!

 

[rochester21]

I need a hip replacement and my ebike is a life saver. Some days im relatively fine and pain free and can ride a regular bike, some days I have to walk with a cane and I just couldn't ride at all without the ebike assistance.

Its also encouraging, albeit very slowly, people out of their cars for the commute who otherwise wouldn't consider a bicycle. I know two who have done so. That is a very good thing indeed.

They're not everyone's cup of tea for sure, and many riders would have no genuine use for one, but take it from me - they're very far from useless.

Nobody likes Ebikes, until they need one.
I am happy that an ebike helped you get back on a bike and even though i don't want to think about it, if one day i have to ditch my old bikes for an electrically assisted one i will do it.

It's all about riding, doesn't matter much what bike you choose as long as it works!

 

[kingoffootball]

I can't comment on most newer stuff.

The 90s stuff does vary though, not just by manufacturer, but component to component. I've had plenty of parts which had little usage fail (I'm looking at you Toplines) but also many parts which have had a hard life and are still excellent - for example the DX hub/Ritchey Vantage rim front wheel on my Karakoram Elite, which went through many years of uncared for commuting before I bought it. The races are still great, the rims still have plenty of wear and the finish is still beautiful ... and I've put several thousand more miles on it.