Do modern groupsets last less?

[Chopper the ex Copper]

I'm all for things that reduce reliance on cars and get people mobile, but an ebike cost is almost as much as a small car, then you have the problem no one has yet really solved: battery disposal.

Getting back on topic, as I'm sure I've already seen/read, it is no surprise things wear out faster as the need for things to be narrower has grown to accommodate ever more gears on what looks like a dustbin lid cassette on ever bigger wheels.

I think there are components (like rhumbies) or periods where things were made well, made light and lasted. I think the m952 groupset was about as good as it got back then, race performance and weight but that also lasted. It's so annoying that the BB is a v1 spline and a length never done in road BB (or widhe most of the time too), as aside from heel rub, it just lasts and lasts (though the brake linkage can get rattly, service kits could be had for these).

Mine cost me £1100, and has given me nearly 7000 miles sterling service in just under 2 years. If you know of someone selling new cars for that then please give them my details.

Batteries are a potential issue, but you own so many devices yourself that are reliant on this difficult-to-recycle technology it seems strange that you would consider that that as an objection.

The laws with ebikes omg how backward,
You can't go faster than an average Joe on a push bike..so daft! But you can buy a an overweight executive intergalactic missile of a Tesla but your not having more than 15.5 mph on a bicycle!
Jeez french kids get to ride mopeds at 14 years of age..

Speed pedelecs are freely and legally available, as are electric mopeds and electric motorcycles. Theres nothing stopping you buying a faster electric 2 wheeler if that tugs your rug. Once ebikes exceed the baisc specs and start to become faster it is only right that they should be subject to the same lasws as other vehicles. After all, Tesla drivers still have to have a licence and insurance etc, so why on each should an ebike with say, a 25 or 30mpg assistance limit be any different to a petrol moped? The laws are quite sensible in as much as they are universal dependent on the class, weight, and performance of the vehicle. Being electric gets you no special favours there, and why should it?

France is never a good country to cite for their motoring regulations. This is the country that allows drink drivers that have been banned to continue driving legally in voitures sans permis, and even then makes no serious attempt to police banned drivers from carrying on driving normal cars if they so choose.

So yes. E bikes are not for everyone, in just the same way not everyone owns a car or a mobile phone (I don't have a mobile). That does not mean cars or mobile phones are a stupid idea, it just means they have their place in the grand scheme, and that place may not be everyones favoured tipple - they certainly arent mine! Far from being a dead end technology ebikes are the future, and just dismissing them will not change that.

You are not the arbiter of what is sensible or appropriate for someone else. You don't fancy one, thats absolutely fine. I and plenty other of folk do. And that's the bottom line.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Mine cost me £1100, and has given me nearly 7000 miles sterling service in just under 2 years. If you know of someone selling new cars for that then please give them my details.

Batteries are a potential issue, but you own so many devices yourself that are reliant on this difficult-to-recycle technology it seems strange that you would consider that that as an objection.



Speed pedelecs are freely and legally available, as are electric mopeds and electric motorcycles. Theres nothing stopping you buying a faster electric 2 wheeler if that tugs your rug.

France is never a good country to cite for their motoring regulations. This is the country that allows drink drivers that have been banned to continue driving legally in voitures sans permis, and even then makes no serious attempt to police banned drivers from carrying on driving normal cars if they so choose.

I'd say France is more together with there motoring policies,young people allowed to get mobile cheaply..win! drunk drivers pootling about in slow two stroke fuel efficient cars ..win! Places to stay in vehicles overnight/truck stops it's all good! I've never felt safer riding on road than in France! Even with kids buzzing around in plumes of two stroke and pished up Patrice pootling around at least your hear them coming
Yes I know you can buy speed elecs I've had(built) one for about 5 years... enabled me to give up owning a car It gets used when I have to be somewhere quicker than pedal power alone. I'm all for deregulation it would be a massive incentive for people to change they're motoring habits!

 

[brocklanders023]

Nail head !
At speed a 26" wheel off road can be flicked around like ragdoll,29r is like some mega gyroscope requiring a 4 foot wide handle bar to turn!

11-50 cassette 12 speed ...I presume you mash the shifter and send the chain half way across it at a time? Poor chain
I suppose it has solved one problem of people using big big little little...... Not!

Once again, 29ers do not need any different gearing to any other bike, they were around when 3x was still a thing and only became the default long after 1x was standard. Honestly, try a modern 29er as most of the opinions about that size seem to be lodged in 2010!

 

[CassidyAce]

For the first time ever, I came face-to-face with some 1996 Acera X shifters last month: still functioning, still looking fine. But they are the most wretched, horrible shifters I have ever had the displeasure of trying. I wish they hadn't lasted so well.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Once again, 29ers do not need any different gearing to any other bike, they were around when 3x was still a thing and only became the default long after 1x was standard. Honestly, try a modern 29er as most of the opinions about that size seem to be lodged in 2010!

First thing I do on a 3x drivetrain is ditch the granny ... I see absolutely no point in high cadence low speed...shoulder it and run.
29rs are great for flow style riding on man made trails I'll give you that ! But real point to point off-road blazing your own trail in tight trees sharp turns etc 26 is quicker ...well sure is for me!

 

[ishaw]

Batteries are a potential issue, but you own so many devices yourself that are reliant on this difficult-to-recycle technology it seems strange that you would consider that that as an objection.

So, how many devices do I own then? So many apparently, but I'll give you the answer: 2.

I wasn't objecting to ebikes at all, just the fact that with them and all things battery powered, there is the issue of disposal of the batteries once they have run their course. There is also the disposal of carbon fibre too.

Back on topic, the throw away society has created a demand for stuff that needs replacing to meet consumer demand, long gone are the days that things last and can be repaired yourself through either a bit if noise or service kits. I've got a box of 10sp xtr rear mechs that have lunched themselves (snapped parallelograms), x0 shifters that just stop working due to finicky cheese metal inside.

Marginal gains and the need for new sales? At least when stuff broke bitd you could bolt on something else, now each new release of a groupset means new standards and incompatibility that you need to buy more than just a replacement for the part you need.

Oh, I like new shiny things but the cost of a 12ap xtr cassette is now as much as a full mid range MTB from the mid nineties.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

So, how many devices do I own then? So many apparently, but I'll give you the answer: 2.

I wasn't objecting to ebikes at all, just the fact that with them and all things battery powered, there is the issue of disposal of the batteries once they have run their course. There is also the disposal of carbon fibre too.

Back on topic, the throw away society has created a demand for stuff that needs replacing to meet consumer demand, long gone are the days that things last and can be repaired yourself through either a bit if noise or service kits. I've got a box of 10sp xtr rear mechs that have lunched themselves (snapped parallelograms), x0 shifters that just stop working due to finicky cheese metal inside.

Marginal gains and the need for new sales? At least when stuff broke bitd you could bolt on something else, now each new release of a groupset means new standards and incompatibility that you need to buy more than just a replacement for the part you need.

Oh, I like new shiny things but the cost of a 12ap xtr cassette is now as much as a full mid range MTB from the mid nineties.

Pretty sure lithium can be salvaged from battery packs... Just it's probably cheaper still to move a mountain for the resources!
Carbon eh.. smash it grind chuck the powder in low end carbon that's it. Basically land fill in waiting.and your right with all these new standards how many redundant marginal gain carbon frames are going to be sitting in sheds in a few years...cos you can't get this bit or that bit
Probably end having to pay specialists to remove it!
Marginal gains!! Such a corker spouted so much so often by those thst generate so little power anyway! For the pros yeah AVG Joe no... no need!

 

[FluffyChicken]

The laws with ebikes omg how backward,
You can't go faster than an average Joe on a push bike..so daft! But you can buy a an overweight executive intergalactic missile of a Tesla but your not having more than 15.5 mph on a bicycle!
Jeez french kids get to ride mopeds at 14 years of age..

It's to keep them safe for others when using cycle infrastructure. But you do have to be 14yrs+ to ride them
They just become motorbikes over here if you go over the specs and so subject to the usually motorbike rules.
16mph is also the speed our highway code recommends getting off cycle infrastructure/shared use etc and into the all users section of the road.

The choice is there though.

 

[legrandefromage]

There is a well known internet story that SRAM didnt want to pay Shimano for their front mech patents

The modern 1x was born

It gave the 29er full suspension designers free reign as the front mech had always given them headaches

So it is said

Have ridden something very new and shiny with the 1x12, the big wheels, and the long travel and just didnt like it. The geometry was all wrong for my shape and just couldnt get on with the floppy steering

The cost of replacing the proprietary cassette is a bit eye watering especially as just to get any speed, the chain is nearly always on the lowest cogs.

Last week I repaired a 48v e-bike for a friend and it was a hoot up to 16mph, pulling away in any gear even with the assistance dialled in low. But boy was it heavy at 20kg!

For the older stuff, I went through mechs and cassettes very quickly but a set of M730 XT rings lasted for years . I've got lots of rattly 9spd front mechs that still work, but plenty of the older designs that are still as good as new

Shifters got better around the MC34 Alivio / STX-RC era onward, they shift well and seem to go on for years with just a squirt of oil now and gain.

A £4 carboot purchase got me into external BB and 10spd road - old steel frames and 21st century kit go very well together - and not a whiff of carbon

I like the external BB and run 5 bikes with them. I use shims to run GXP cranks with Shimano bearings because pre covid, stuff was so cheap! A lot of people dont like the external BB as they wear very quickly but I've yet to experience this myself.

External BB cranks, unfashionable 9spd XT and LX and all at silly prices and I'm laughing.

Now, there are too many standards (although I do have 9 different freehwheel removal tools) and that proprietary kit minefield makes for fitting new to old very difficult. The 90's are 30 years ago, think back to an early 60's bike and - unless it was high end - it wouldnt have come close to an early 90's bike.

Fast forward the 30 years from '92 to '22 and the distinction isnt quite so there, 25 years of decent forks (I'm talking to you Marzocchi), some 35+ years of indexed shifting - how do you rationalize all this into a business? As already mentioned, the industry wants your money so in order for this to happen, a shake up now and again comes along and we all reach for the multi tool.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Forgot we're in a new/old tech better thing.
There is already an ebike ranting topic
And a 29er rant topic.


I have loads of old 90s stuff broken and worn out in boxes in a shed.
It wasn't brilliant even back then, it may have seemed sometimes.