Do modern groupsets last less?

[grey-beard]

Id love it if someone sold a carbon frame with a weight capacity that can handle a 19 and a bit stone man. We're not all short arriss skinny sorts with tight T shirts, trendy spectacles and a propensity to stop for a latte every 3 minutes.

This is also why I don't give a hoot what components weigh. When the rider weighs over an eighth of a ton it doesn't matter in the slightest that I could have got a rear mech that was 12g lighter.



Now ride them back to back in heavy mud. Its an inescapable reality that the extra rim diameter on my Merida 29 holds several kilograms more mud than the smaller 26 inch hoops on my other bikes. Even worse, its rotating mass so its effect is far greater than simply adding a few kg to the frame, all those inertial forces at play. Acceleration is decadened, steering numbed, all the flighty fast rolling character muted.

For 5 or 6 months a year the terrain outside of a trail centre (and even there as well...) is just a muddy mess. Great in Marin county, a disadvantage for best part of half a year in the UK. Unless I know its fairly hard packed out there mine stays in the shed over winter.

Don't get me wrong, the 26's still suffer but the difference is significant. This is why all through my MTB coaching career - until I retired from it last year - I stuck to 26", except in the driest months.

They all have their strengths and weaknesses, its a case of the best tool for the job at that type of terrain at that time of year...and a dollop of rider preference.

You're right about the weight thing, it's never bothered me really. I had a conversation with a big guy at work recently who was very proud of his full carbon road bike, "it's sooo light" but I said that I imagine the combined weight of him plus bike and me on my diy ebike will be about the same, he wasn't pleased.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I'm not surprised chains are having a hard time now. With 1 x 12/13 systems and 50 teeth cassettes. But the 29er needs this to make it work up hill. Stop buying 29er's its rubbish. Every time some buys one its anther nail in the 26er coffin. Too many on here them.

Nail head !
At speed a 26" wheel off road can be flicked around like ragdoll,29r is like some mega gyroscope requiring a 4 foot wide handle bar to turn!

11-50 cassette 12 speed ...I presume you mash the shifter and send the chain half way across it at a time? Poor chain
I suppose it has solved one problem of people using big big little little...... Not!

 

[Siish]

None of you are thinking like Mr Shimano......he wants sales, he knows people are now obsessed with the latest thing (see mobile phone sales...), he knows nobody fixes anything anymore, he wants to make stuff cheaper to improve profits.

Welcome to a perfect storm of crap.

Poor quality that wont last, at high prices, sold to people waiting in a queue to buy it, who will either sell it on in 2 years before it wears out or accept that it goes in the bin when it breaks.

Why on earth would Mr shimano ( or any other manufacturer) now want to make something the quality of an XT M730 chainset, that never breaks, with 10k ring quality and that will still be in service 35 years after he sold it!

He proved his reputation with that and is still trading on it.

We live in a disgusting throwaway society.....we see the issues as we are regularly dipping into the past for parts......

What really gets my goat is that the same companies have the gaul to have environmental policies on every aspect of their operation from printer ink to packaging, whilst simultaneously making parts that go into landfill 30 years earlier than needed.

Wow I've got cynical.

Couldn't agree more, long gone are the days of 'if it ain't broke, you don't need to fix it' or 'buy cheap, buy twice' from some companies. It appears to be more a case of 'we don't have time to do it properly, but can find time to do it twice'. There are too many people that live in a throw away society and major companies know this and cater the market to suit,

 

[legrandefromage]

Here its 10spd for road and 9 for the 'modern' MTB with 7 and 8 for the older stuff

7spd was more than enough for the Derbyshire Peaks on the older bikes but there are some whacky ratios to get used to

10 is great on the roads as the ratios seem to smooth things out a bit

9spd chains run lovely on the 7 & 8 systems

Theres no one bike that gets favoured over another so wear is pretty even across the 5 most used

Thats as much as I want to get involved.

*and as you can see, even 9 geerz is wasted on me around these parts

 

[FluffyChicken]

I'm all for light bikes, it help when lifting them over the gates and stiles.

If I think back to when i road a lot, early 90s, DX was like cheese, it would be gone and damaged in a few months.
XTR cassettes exploded as the ring bolts fell apart. Fixed later using the XT design.
Even my M900 crank has a crack through the NDS arm.

Pedal bearing fell to bits and were not easy to change, until SPD and similar came along.

The RF and RF+ shifters died within a year (take them apart and you can see the wear on the copper parts). Hence GripShift did well.

Some rims would bend when being looked at and some parts cracked as you take them out the box.

Bars cracked at the ends with barends and headsets would destroy themselves until Mavic ones were fitted.
Regularly went though chains as mud and dirt and miles wore them out.
Syncros seatpost cracked and bent etc.


And though it seemed to last a long time back then, 6 weeks was an eternity as a school teenager, now 6 years that my STX stuff has for outlasted seems like just 6 weeks has past.

Most of the modern (
2010ish) stuff, bar some bottom brackets and a XT rear mech are still running 10 years later.

But I'm not as hard a rider.

So is my mainly Suntour commuter.

I think we have it good compared to the early 90s cheese they made things from.

(excluding the past 5 years, as I've not used new parts.)

 

[legrandefromage]

I do remember early sti being a bit like an std.

Thumbies were too reliable

MMountain LX and Deore LX seem to last forever

Ver

Ver

Ver

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Here its 10spd for road and 9 for the 'modern' MTB with 7 and 8 for the older stuff

7spd was more than enough for the Derbyshire Peaks on the older bikes but there are some whacky ratios to get used to

10 is great on the roads as the ratios seem to smooth things out a bit

9spd chains run lovely on the 7 & 8 systems

Theres no one bike that gets favoured over another so wear is pretty even across the 5 most used

Thats as much as I want to get involved.

*and as you can see, even 9 geerz is wasted on me around these parts


View attachment 621658

So one gear to push off another gets you up and running t'other for goin fast. Leaving a warp drive for those little moments!
Funny that just like one of my blocks
Which is probably my lightest cluster think it weighs about 85g all in !

Chainlines great too !

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I would definitely like to hear more about the differences between old and new chains, i always thought the design remained the same since they first put a chain on a bike?

Also, i had no idea that a chain can have uneven wear on it.
I'm a chain noob, but i'm very interested in the topic, tell us more!

In a nutshell
Old chains the roller ran on the pins
Modern chains the roller runs on the inner side plates.
Grab your chain breaker and break down some old chains and you'll see .It sounds suttle but it's actually very different!

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Thumbies were great. They changed gear just as well were light, simple to service, and didn't gouge a bruise in your thigh if you came off badly into the bars.

Indeed, there is a minor, but notable, trend for people to use them in friction mode with modern 1 x drivetrains...

https://nsmb.com/articles/you-should-try-friction-thumb-shifter/

 

[rochester21]

I seem to remember having exactly the same thoughts about the Shimano near monopoly back in the 90s as Sachs, Campag & Suntour all fell away from MTB drive chains/groupsets. Perhaps I've got less cynical.

You were right back then. I have a 1983 Basso road bike with OEM components on it, and they last almost forever, that cassette and chain plus record hubs never wear down, not to mention the non-indexed shifting, no STI to worry about.

The bike is worn out from all the riding it's seen through the decades(not a show bike), but everything works, no investments needed other than a set of tires when i first bought her.