Claud Butler help needed

[andy156]

I brought a Claud Butler on ebay 2 years ago and wish to identify it with a view to love it or list it.
Main points:
531 Reynolds decal
Frame No. 02 3533 same on fork stem
Campagnolo dropouts
English bottom bracket
Band on shifters.
No cable bridge on bottom bracket
Derailleur cable stop above chain stay
Pump pegs on seat post
lamp mount on forks
No rack mount
GB stem
120mm rear spacing
Olympic ring transfer, no head badge
The rest of the bike seems to be a real mix of upgrades, plus a "handcrafted by Holdsworth London SE20 8DE" sticker on the down tube which I suspect was a repaint as the frame seems older.
Anyone know what it was?

 

[Midlife]

Hi

Pictures would be a real help

Shaun

 

[andy156]

I hope this photobucket thing works.


http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/andy_ ... %20Uploads

 

[keithglos]

Re:

Hi Andy

Can't see the pics, but it seems likely that you have one of The Holdsworthy Company frames that they built and distributed to the trade, using Holdsworth, Claud Butler and Freddy Grubb names, and "own name". They were based in SW20.

These were mostly fixed designs and were good value and hand built frames.

Keith

 

[Jamiedyer]

Hi Andy
I can't help with ID ing a model for your frame but it certainly looks very nice to me.
I can help with the photo's though, I will upload the pics to your post for you
You can do it by clicking on the individual pic in photobucket and copying the IMG link on the right of the page and then pasting in your post. To you it will look like text until you submit the post.

Jamie

 

[andy156]

Thanks Jamie.

 

[andy156]

Re: Re:

Hi Andy

Can't see the pics, but it seems likely that you have one of The Holdsworthy Company frames that they built and distributed to the trade, using Holdsworth, Claud Butler and Freddy Grubb names, and "own name". They were based in SW20.

These were mostly fixed designs and were good value and hand built frames.

Keith

That's my first thought, but despite studying loads of online catalogues I don't seam to be able to find anything that matches. It seams that few claud butler frames have seat tube pump pegs a though some models seam to offer a choice of dropouts etc so may be it was made to order up to a point. As most of the cycle parts were a mix:
Normandy high flange rear hub
Campagnolo 32 hole front -original?
Fiamme tubular rims
Campagnolo 980 derailleur - 1980's
Sun tour bar end shifters
Shimano clamp on cable guide
Hurst clamp on cable stop
Dia compe 630 brakes (the rear not reaching the 700c rim)
This mix of parts makes me think that it may have been refurbished by holdsworth in the 80's, I just love to know what it was originally and when it was made. The 02 start to the frame no. makes my think either Feb 1960 or Feb 1970 is this a fair guess?

 

[keithglos]

Looks to me like a standard Holdsworthy frame from the early 60's. Most of these were sold as frame only because of purchase tax on complete bikes, not on components.
The mix of parts seems to have accumulated over time. I don't think Holdsworthy did repaints, and it does look original.

Is the seat pin 26.4?

Keith

 

[andy156]

Looks to me like a standard Holdsworthy frame from the early 60's. Most of these were sold as frame only because of purchase tax on complete bikes, not on components.
The mix of parts seems to have accumulated over time. I don't think Holdsworthy did repaints, and it does look original.

Is the seat pin 26.4?

Keith

That's my thinking, looking at a 1980's claud butler majestic on ebay it looks very simular especially the holdworth sticker, but the rear brake cable runs over the top tube mine runs under with an exposed inner, and the rear dropouts are Suntour not Campagnolo like mine. Were Holdsworth making that many vacations by then? In sort the the sticker shouts eighties but details leave doubts. Anyone got an 1980 majestic with a similar frame number?
The seat pin is 26.4mm.

 

[keithglos]

Re:

26.4 makes the tubing plain 531, not butted, probably 3 main tubes only.
When I sold Holdsworthy frames in the 50 /60s they also used some Reynolds grade A drawn tubing, rather than seam welded, cant say what this has, but it might be possible to look inside a chainstay from the bottom bracket to find a seam or not.

Keith