29 HT vs 26 FS - Getting it rolling!

[drcarlos]

I've pretty much ridden my Cube LTD Race 29er exclusively for about 18 months (only rarely getting out on the retro occasionally when it's been dry). The only thing it struggled with was trail riding (roots, rocks and drops) and singletrack where it just feel sketchy and not very nimble, which is down to the big wheels and the fact it's a HT.
So i sold a couple of unused bikes and bought myself a used Kona Dawg (more than happy for the price I paid). On the trails it's immense and confidence inspiring and nimble too. However it's slow and like a lump of pig iron on the flat and uphill fireroads after the Cube, it's even just an effort to keep it rolling. The Cube on the fireroads just flies, this drags.
I went for a ride at the weekend with my brother and some guys who I can keep with on the Cube, but was left for dead and really struggled on the Kona, even the new guy riding with us had to wait for me!
I use the Racing Ralph/Nobby Nic combo on the Cube which was an upgrade from the fitted Rapid Rob/Tough Tom combo it came with. So I was thinking that this would be a good upgrade on the Kona so I ordered some, now looking at reviews of the ignitors (just out of interests sake) that came fitted on the Kona it seem a comment is that they roll fast. So I'm left wondering is this just a symptom of FS Trail bikes or 26v29 or will the tyres help?
This is my first real experience of FS and don't want it to be a let down. Anything else I can do (I'm going 1x11 to shed a bit of weight off the Kona but it's Scandium framed Dawg so lighter than the old bikes, even though it's a 200.

Carl.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

29ers completely killed 26" for me. My two main riding buddies went 29" HT back when I had a 26" FS and I got sick of them leaving me for dead on anything other than down hill. We have always been at a similar level but at that time I had to burst myself just to keep up. Swapped that bike for the 29" version and all was well. Have since changed to a shorter travel 29" FS that is long and slack. It's ace and a flying machine.

I also got a 650b HT which nicely filled the gap that big wheelers struggle to fill. Due to lack of time to ride I'm going to sell one and after giving it a lot of thought I'll be keeping the 29".

I know plenty of people still enjoy 26" but it has been relegated to sedate retro bimbles for me these days and I can't imagine I'll go back.

 

[Osella]

I use the Racing Ralph/Nobby Nic combo on the Cube which was an upgrade from the fitted Rapid Rob/Tough Tom combo it came with. So I was thinking that this would be a good upgrade on the Kona so I ordered some, now looking at reviews of the ignitors (just out of interests sake) that came fitted on the Kona it seem a comment is that they roll fast.

Carl.

Ignitors..? Maxxis Ignitors?
If that's what the Kona has; that'll be 80-90% of the problem. They're tough tyres and cut through mud well, but anybody who thinks they roll fast has never ridden a fast-rolling tyre.. :facepalm:

I've ridden the same bike (also a 26er, hardtail Reynolds 853-frame) and just changed the tyres and it came alive; totally different bike. I could not ride fireroads on the (folding bead) Ignitors, and tarmac; forget it! I was so disappointed in the bike, no zing, no liveliness; changed only the tyres and it became a new bike.
They are just momentum-killers. If you have no momentum and are just digging, they work fine, but anytime where momentum is required, it's like they are filled with water..
I replaced them with ITS; but my normal 'go-to' combo is an original-pattern RR/NN combo; and they are literally twice as fast.
As further comparison, I also have two bikes with Lobo Mas Loco 2.5" DH tyres; and even they are faster-rolling and more agile tyres than Ignitors.

 

[drcarlos]

I didn’t feel so disadvantaged on the 26er retros last time I rode one, hmm feel an experiment coming on tonight if we do our usual Monday night loop, I’ll take a 26er retro and see how I cope against them on a mixed fire road/bridleway/tarmac loop.

Carl

 

[drcarlos]

I use the Racing Ralph/Nobby Nic combo on the Cube which was an upgrade from the fitted Rapid Rob/Tough Tom combo it came with. So I was thinking that this would be a good upgrade on the Kona so I ordered some, now looking at reviews of the ignitors (just out of interests sake) that came fitted on the Kona it seem a comment is that they roll fast.

Carl.

Ignitors..? Maxxis Ignitors?
If that's what the Kona has; that'll be 80-90% of the problem. They're tough tyres and cut through mud well, but anybody who thinks they roll fast has never ridden a fast-rolling tyre.. :facepalm:

I've ridden the same bike (also a 26er, hardtail Reynolds 853-frame) and just changed the tyres and it came alive; totally different bike. I could not ride fireroads on the (folding bead) Ignitors, and tarmac; forget it! I was so disappointed in the bike, no zing, no liveliness; changed only the tyres and it became a new bike.
They are just momentum-killers. If you have no momentum and are just digging, they work fine, but anytime where momentum is required, it's like they are filled with water..
I replaced them with ITS; but my normal 'go-to' combo is an original-pattern RR/NN combo; and they are literally twice as fast.
As further comparison, I also have two bikes with Lobo Mas Loco 2.5" DH tyres; and even they are faster-rolling and more agile tyres than Ignitors.

Phew, well I thought they had a lot to do with it. Bike just feels like it’s in glue on anything other than downhill!
The rr/nn combo works well on my 26er and 29er (which is faster like brock says) and I was literally dying and had to stop several times where I rode the lot on my 29er and kept up!

Carl

 

[drcarlos]

Well I went for it. I am now pretty convinced that the tyres are a major hinderance. Took out my old Claud butler Anteaus 653. It's running the NN/RR combo and put in a time on an uphill section that would have been good enough for KOM last year https://www.strava.com/activities/18485 ... 6355938335. The other guys were on 650b or 29er's and the little 26er just nailed it.
Also to further add to the proof I realised my boy who also comes out with us and struggled last week was also on ignitors, so they were swapped this evening for a set of Panaracer fire XC's I had lying around. He was so much faster and mostly kept up. The complete loop on Strava took 1:18 last week, this week we came in at 1:05. So there is proof in the pudding.
Looking forward to getting those tyres on that Kona, hopefully it will be real fun then.
Anyone wanna buy some lightly used ignitors?

Carl.

 

[Osella]

Re:

Well, that's good news! At least insofar as there being a direction to go in (and not one that necessarily involves ditching a Scandi/Alloy frame & all your 26" wheels )

The Ignitors are a good winter tyre for mud-plugging and indestructible by & large; they'll roll through pine needles and crunch roots & brambles etc with little trouble; but they are not in any way a momentum tyre - hopefully switching the tyres does goo;, an 11% improvement for your boy just from that isn't at all bad!

 

[mattr]

Maybe get a better 29er?
Mines nice and nimble and more than happy on rocks, roots and drops. Not sketchy at all.

Running Ardent Race and Ikon on it (a new option for me, i've been running assorted Schwalbes for 10+ years). (How much pressure are you running it the tyres as well? I've found this makes MASSES of difference (sub 2 bar for me on everything)

 

[drcarlos]

So I finished my 1x11 conversion at the weekend and had the new tyres fitted already. So last night I took it out for a spin on one of our usual routes. It's mainly fireroads with a bit of single track, nothing heady at all. Well the difference was like night and day! It rolls now, almost as well as the 29er, this could be quite an enduro machine. Looking forward to getting it out in the more technical and downhill stuff now, where I can ride section to section without feeling like an asthmatic 80 year old as I try and keep pace with the others!

Carl.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

I got 26ers, 650bs and 29ers, and find them much of a muchness. The big difference though was in the wet and mud, then the extra diameter of the Carve 29er carries a very noticeable extra kilo or two of mud on each wheel. Other than that, nah, it's all guff.