1959 Bates BAR

[Martin Rattler]

P1010139 by JuanM58, on Flickr

P1010138 by JuanM58, on Flickr

I visited a fellow V-CC member the other week to take a look at his bikes. Whilst looking at his Ron Cooper built Bates I mentioned that I had always fancied owning one and, what a coincidence, he had a BAR frame for sale. I had actually seen the frame on EBay a few months beforehand and nearly called him as I knew he was local; I wasn’t aware it was his. Well, after a bit of a chat the deal was done it was mine!

I haven’t got any information about its earlier life but from the frame number it is a BAR (Best All Rounder) from around 1959. Bates numbers appear to have been sequential so it is difficult to be precise about dates. It has recently been refinished by Mario Vaz. At some point in its life it appears to have been ‘modernised’ with Campag rear drop outs with derailleur hanger, cable guides fitted to the BB and a cable stop on the chainstay. I have a Youngs frame which has been similarly updated and judging by some of the ‘50s frames with apparently modern fittings that I have seen on dealers’ sites this may have been a fairly common thing to do in the past with a favourite quality frame.

The obvious difference from a conventional frame are the distinctive double curve ‘Diadrant’ forks. Their distinctiveness was probably the main point of the design at a time when advertising during competitions was not allowed, the photograph in the paper couldn’t be anything but a Bates. I suspect that Hetchins frames were curly for the same reason. Whether this gave any significant competitive advantage is debatable. The ‘Cantiflex’ tubes, which are wider in the middle than the ends do improve the stiffness of the frame and the normal dimensions of the tube ends allow the use of conventional lugs. I have always liked the look of these frames; to me they look as if they have been slightly inflated, like a balloon animal.

My initial thoughts are to build it up with later dated equipment in keeping with frame modifications to get it on the road for next summer but in the longer term I may look at trying for something a little earlier in line with the original age of the frame. I’ll update as I go.

 

[oonaff]

Re:

hi , was'nt there something special about the tubing on these ? was it 'cantiflex' a different kind of 531 ?

 

[Martin Rattler]

Re:

The tubing is Reynolds 531 ‘Cantiflex’ so I assume that he composition of the steel is the same as plain or butted 531 tubing; the term Cantiflex referring to the tube section. There is some background to this on the Classic Lightweights site: http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... ates2.html

 

[Spokesmann]

SUPERB!

 

[Old Ned]

Lovely. A mate of mine had one in the early 60's.

 

[Callisto LaSorte]

Re:

Hello Martin! congratulations for your bike, it's beautiful!

I subscribed to the forum to broaden my horizons to the beautiful bike produced outside Italy ... yours is really amazing !!

I am amazed by the thickness of the seat stays ... they are like "spaghetti"! :mrgreen:
extra-thin!

great job!

Can you say more about this brand?

Thank you!

 

[Old Ned]

Here you go!

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... bates.html

All you need to know about this Bates brand ie Horace Bates.

Don't get it confused with the other Bates - E G Bates.

Although they were partners in the beginning.

 

[Callisto LaSorte]

Re:

these forks makes me fall in love!!!!!

 

[Callisto LaSorte]

Re:

...in Italy there are no Bates ...

How much is difficult and expensive to buy one bike (or frame set) in good condition?

 

[Martin Rattler]

Re:

Hi Callisto, I am glad that you like the frame, I will post some more pictures as I build it up.

While Bates frames are not that common, frames and complete bikes do appear quite regularly on EBay. I say this only as a measure of their rarity rather than suggesting that you buy one from EBay. They were made in small numbers until fairly recently, I think there was a ‘90s frame for sale on this site a few months ago. I would imagine that there are not many Bates frames in Italy so if you have really set your heart on one I suggest that you put an advert in the ‘Wanted’ section of the classified pages and see what comes up; you could do the same on CTC website forum; also, Hilary Stone occasionally has Bates frames for sale on his website. ( www.hilarystone.com )

As to cost, well I would say that they are more expensive than a conventional frame; but a lot less than a Hetchins! Of course the cost will depend on type, condition, originality and all the rest. Mine has been updated in the ‘80s and recently refinished and the price reflected this.