1930's Holdsworth Stelvio Frame?

[dwscrimshaw]

Saw this frame on the bay, second time its been on there and its number, 0319, is the lowest I have seen to date. (If anyone has a lower number I would be interested) As it would have been a shame to see it get broken up I went for it and got the forks too.

Looking at the 1934 catalog its difficult to confirm the model. The wheel base as best as I can measure is 42.5" which leads me to the Stelvio or Typhoon. The Typhoon should be A&P tubing and the Stevio Reynolds HM aircraft steel. The fork steerer does not have any A&P stamping on it as I have seen on other forks and frames so I am thinking again this is a Stelvio.

There is not much else in the spec to differentiate them other than the comment on open ended forks for the Typhoon, not sure what that means and the D to Round forks for the Stelvio. There was some discussion here on a Typhoon some time back that mentioned round forks and this one seems to have what i assume is D to Round. The pictures of the Typhoon could have a slightly curved read brake bridge and a head badge, this one doesn't.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=139293&start=10

I am leaning towards the Stelvio for the above reasons, but would welcome the views of anyone who knows more about these early frames. There seems to be some additional lugs added at some point under the top tube. As I don't see them in the catalog pictures I assume these should be removed.

 

[OldTel]

Re:

Hi, just throwing a couple of points into the mix, at a guess the angles look mid to late 30's, and that serial number would place the Holdsworth in the early 30's, when the market and frame fittings ( angles ) were very static due to the depression. I've attached an early Holdsworth I had years and years ago, the frame had bad pitting and broke while I was riding it, so it has long gone, I had guessed it was 1936 ish, I remember the catalogs being very difficult to compare with, I don't know if it helps or not, just a few thoughts. Thanks Terry

 

[dwscrimshaw]

thanks, very similar to mine with headset oiler and straight brake bridge. Lugs seem to have a more rounded cut out? Also I see the lamp bracket is on the 'right' side, mine is on the left which I have also seen on a few older bikes. I'll add the number to the log too. Its all a bit of a guess dating frames this early. I've placed mine as 1934 purely because that's the first catalog i have seen.

 

[Steve s]

Re:

That's a great frame, it's interesting to see the different locations for the frame numbers on these early frames.

I would be interested to know what year they stopped stamping frame numbers on the seat tube and moved to the rear dropout and under bb positions, also when they stopped stamping on the rear of the fork crown, I had a 1950 track frame stamped on the rear of the fork and dropout, I always linked the fork crown stamping with russ forks which where an available option pre and post war, but these dont seem like russ forks?

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Yes, I have not seen a 50's bike with it on the crown, I thought that was only pre-war. Most of the Pre-war frames have the number on the seat lug with one exception which is a lug less frame so that is on the BB. They seemed to move to the BB then the rear drop out and then back to the BB. These changes are not consistent as there seems to be a bit of a mix during the change overs.

I would be interested in your frame number and details for the database if you are happy with that, with some pictures. You can look through the database by down loading it from the link on the history site frame number page.

 

[Steve s]

Re:

Thanks for the info regarding frame number locations, its interesting how these things changed over the years, You already have the number dave, its 14307, March '19 I posted a few pics too, in this thread, I did a little searching and realised (with a little help from an old uncle there where russ track forks on it.(an advertised option pre war) I parted with it early this year after I bought a cyclone deluxe.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I try and keep up to speed with all the posts ad ad.'s etc. I remember that frame now from the discussion in the thread you mention. That's a long number to get onto the crown. I assume the forks were a replacement for the originals or old stock when the bike was built?

 

[Steve s]

Re:

My understanding is the russ was still going well into the 50s, and if you asked for russ forks when you ordered, like pre war, they would be supplied with the frame but stamped behind the crown.
Russ forks where an option with a hell of alot of makers prewar inc holdsworth, and I'm told it carried on after the war but to a much lesser extent.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Ok, all interesting info. thanks.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Painted the frame, which should have been simple being black. Getting to cover the copper plate was a bit of a problem and then the paint reacted with the primer and acted as a paint stripper. Not really sure what the problem was unless there was some residue from the platers? Anyway its covered now although not the best paint job I've done.