Rapparee87
Retro Guru
Jonas Vingegard is on 150mm cranks. What are the (dis)advantages of these? Anyone here tried them?
150mm cranks.
- Thread starter Rapparee87
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Rapparee87
Retro Guru
Too much gobbledegook!
Frankenorange
Orange 🍊 Fan
I have gone down from the common sizes of 175 and 172.5 ,that i used as a teen and young adult , to 170 and then 165 and after that 160. This i did with lots of months in between. I have now down to 140.
There is an awful lot of carp on the internet about short cranks due to alot of misunderstanding, of mechanical principles, and a healthy dose of old wives tales with a good topping of troll jibber jabber.
I have gone short because of knee injuries and scrunching them up, too much, at the top of the stroke doesn't feel nice. Another knee preservation thing(for my knees at least) is i have a position where my knees are way ahead of the pedals at the 3 o'clock position(kind of what a modern time trial position is). I am also using Osymetric chainrings which started as an experiment, because they might also help knees, and when i saw some super cheap i thought why not give 'em a go?, and now i am a convert.
Anyway....things felt very good(not quite 100% though), but switching to the 140 cranks has brought it all together. I have been able to use bigger gears at a higher cadence, for one thing, and the biggest difference i have noticed is how less out of breath i am, at particular points, on some regular routes.
The negative, which is the only time i think the lever argument can be used, is when you find yourself terribly overgeared for a hill and you are pretty much at a slow walking pace. Then i noticed the shorter cranks, but that is easily sorted by fitting a larger cog on the back. Depends on a few things but approximately a 4 to 8 tooth jump would need to be considered, if you live amongst steep hills. So; 28 to 32/34/36 for example.
So, for my physiology, it all works very well. It still feels a bit odd, for a while as i have a 'dad bike' that is presently more conventional for popping around the block, and i have only done several rides in the 140's, but once i get into a ride it has been eye opening. Tbh i have been a bit stunned , so far, by the rise in capability.
It is all very personal. Due to all the different shapes and sizes of us humans, how we like to feel on a bike, what attitudes we have etc and it is very possible that none of my setup , or even part of it, will work for someone else.
Going by internet/magazine reviews/ experiments and research papers is usually, in my opinion, a waste of time because the tendancy, for most, is to only swap item A for item B with no thought that the swap might require a change in position, for example.
A good example of this is with these Osymetric rings. I wonder if all of the naysayers had pushed their saddles forward then more might have gotten on with them ,positively , as i think that might be what you have to do if you are going to use them. Same goes for extreme oval rings, like Rotor XL's, with the different positions you can put them into the stroke, but it may just be my physiology.
Another thing that always crops up is along the lines of, "well, if xyz is so much better then why don't all the pro's use them" and this is spouted by trolls and people who aren't thinking.
Pro cyclists are often at the mercy of sponsors and budgets , for what they can use, and alot of them just haven't got the time to experiment and certainly can't risk the potential for injury by trying some stuff out be it saddles, crank lengths etc. If a pro did find something that felt great , and the numbers looked good , it still might be impossible to get it made, or use a non-sponsored item. Might be differnt for a really big name, but for most of them who will never win a race in the career things will not change.
I have felt some big changes in how muscles work, with my experiments, and it takes time for things to settle in. I could imagine that a pro, who has ridden a particular setup for decades and does 10,000kms a year, could do themselves a costly mischief so are a few watts even worth the risk?
I think this is why Pog has been going shorter in steps and maybe JV has been doing the same, behind the scenes, since his last big event in 2024?
I find the cycling part of the Ironman triathlete world is really worth keeping an eye on. They have always been more open to innovation and experimenting with stuff and use alot of niche items. Lots of reasons for this , but mainly it isn't a sport with 100+ years of 'the old ways' and they need to preserve muscles for the long run, that follows the long bike section.
I say give it a go, if you are curious. There are second hand options and new if you look at junior BMX kit. Pick a make that has cranks in various lengths and don't be put off by the word junior. The short cranks will look exactly like the longer options, but are just shorter.
There are always cheapo short cranks for the BSO market ,on ebay, but the chainrings can't be swapped out. It will still give you something to try, though.
One thing to plan in, if anyone reading this does experiment, is be prepared to have to buy a few bottom brackets axle lengths due to the big differnces you can get between cranks(chainline, chainstay clearance etc).
I am all square taper so that is cheap and easy to play with. I have no idea what problems will occur and even what goes on with all the other standards and options, on modern bikes.
There is an awful lot of carp on the internet about short cranks due to alot of misunderstanding, of mechanical principles, and a healthy dose of old wives tales with a good topping of troll jibber jabber.
I have gone short because of knee injuries and scrunching them up, too much, at the top of the stroke doesn't feel nice. Another knee preservation thing(for my knees at least) is i have a position where my knees are way ahead of the pedals at the 3 o'clock position(kind of what a modern time trial position is). I am also using Osymetric chainrings which started as an experiment, because they might also help knees, and when i saw some super cheap i thought why not give 'em a go?, and now i am a convert.
Anyway....things felt very good(not quite 100% though), but switching to the 140 cranks has brought it all together. I have been able to use bigger gears at a higher cadence, for one thing, and the biggest difference i have noticed is how less out of breath i am, at particular points, on some regular routes.
The negative, which is the only time i think the lever argument can be used, is when you find yourself terribly overgeared for a hill and you are pretty much at a slow walking pace. Then i noticed the shorter cranks, but that is easily sorted by fitting a larger cog on the back. Depends on a few things but approximately a 4 to 8 tooth jump would need to be considered, if you live amongst steep hills. So; 28 to 32/34/36 for example.
So, for my physiology, it all works very well. It still feels a bit odd, for a while as i have a 'dad bike' that is presently more conventional for popping around the block, and i have only done several rides in the 140's, but once i get into a ride it has been eye opening. Tbh i have been a bit stunned , so far, by the rise in capability.
It is all very personal. Due to all the different shapes and sizes of us humans, how we like to feel on a bike, what attitudes we have etc and it is very possible that none of my setup , or even part of it, will work for someone else.
Going by internet/magazine reviews/ experiments and research papers is usually, in my opinion, a waste of time because the tendancy, for most, is to only swap item A for item B with no thought that the swap might require a change in position, for example.
A good example of this is with these Osymetric rings. I wonder if all of the naysayers had pushed their saddles forward then more might have gotten on with them ,positively , as i think that might be what you have to do if you are going to use them. Same goes for extreme oval rings, like Rotor XL's, with the different positions you can put them into the stroke, but it may just be my physiology.
Another thing that always crops up is along the lines of, "well, if xyz is so much better then why don't all the pro's use them" and this is spouted by trolls and people who aren't thinking.
Pro cyclists are often at the mercy of sponsors and budgets , for what they can use, and alot of them just haven't got the time to experiment and certainly can't risk the potential for injury by trying some stuff out be it saddles, crank lengths etc. If a pro did find something that felt great , and the numbers looked good , it still might be impossible to get it made, or use a non-sponsored item. Might be differnt for a really big name, but for most of them who will never win a race in the career things will not change.
I have felt some big changes in how muscles work, with my experiments, and it takes time for things to settle in. I could imagine that a pro, who has ridden a particular setup for decades and does 10,000kms a year, could do themselves a costly mischief so are a few watts even worth the risk?
I think this is why Pog has been going shorter in steps and maybe JV has been doing the same, behind the scenes, since his last big event in 2024?
I find the cycling part of the Ironman triathlete world is really worth keeping an eye on. They have always been more open to innovation and experimenting with stuff and use alot of niche items. Lots of reasons for this , but mainly it isn't a sport with 100+ years of 'the old ways' and they need to preserve muscles for the long run, that follows the long bike section.
I say give it a go, if you are curious. There are second hand options and new if you look at junior BMX kit. Pick a make that has cranks in various lengths and don't be put off by the word junior. The short cranks will look exactly like the longer options, but are just shorter.
There are always cheapo short cranks for the BSO market ,on ebay, but the chainrings can't be swapped out. It will still give you something to try, though.
One thing to plan in, if anyone reading this does experiment, is be prepared to have to buy a few bottom brackets axle lengths due to the big differnces you can get between cranks(chainline, chainstay clearance etc).
I am all square taper so that is cheap and easy to play with. I have no idea what problems will occur and even what goes on with all the other standards and options, on modern bikes.
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