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I suppose IF 5263 on BB is indeed one group of digits it could be a first half of 70's 4d number - just the highest we have seen. Present highest 4D number listed is 4905 (a DBS). 5263 is not that much further along. Thus could be one of last frames numbered in this system - possibly not long...

As I understand it: The 4D numbers used in early 70's were for special builds ie "made to measure" frames, and frames built to specs for smaller shops often for self branding. Braze-ons, even angles could be custom. This numbering system was separate from long standing 5D system that the...

I agree with above comments, I don't think this is 1978 but rather a 1977 Pro. Long Campy rear dropouts, Cinelli style fork crown , full wrap over seat stays all place prior to 1978. As per Kilgariff re changes for 1978 Pro: "The Pro now has the short Campy 1010B dropouts with only the faces...

Re: Re: So is there any particular evidence that the 5-digit system survived the move at all? Torqueless, I agree, unclear whether 5D serial system survived the move. To my thinking Cyclone 43295 is evidence that the 5D system stopped at time of the move in May 1975. Although Kilgariff...

This is interesting re 43295 as Dave's "prediction" graph places at circa 1976. The Holdsworthy factory moved to another bigger site at Oakfield Rd on or sometime shortly after May 1975. It is thought that the change from the 5 digit number system to the new 6 digit system also happened at...

Philip, Certainly looks that 43295 is all original, and in darn good shape I'd say. Maybe just needs a good clean up, oiling and update of a few consumables or whatever. Perhaps you plan to rebuild? This is definitely a Cyclone in typical plain gauge Reynolds. I have a '65 Plain gauge...

Boyley I agree, according to Dave Scrimshaw's present prediction table, number would fit with a circa 1976 Holdsworthy factory frame. Probably you have, but if not, you should check out catalogues and model discussion on nKilgariff.com - the definitive site for all things Holdsworth! Do you...

Eric, Re 69364 - interesting! 26.8 seat post implies 531 plain gauge and thus your # 69364 fits above catalog description for a "shop" Competizone Road model. As catalogue states they were built to defined specs and not customized, thus more likely to lay in stock. As Kilgariff says often...

Hi Eric, RE your 69364 "shop" road frame, also wonder what size seat post it takes - as you say easiest way to decide whether might be 531DB or not? I'm no expert re tubing type either. Still wonder if might be a Competizone which was said to be plain gauge. Certainly nothing to suggest a...

Hi Doug, As far as the tubing goes for either frame, I am completely in the dark and not expert enough to be able to spot the difference. Both frames were purchased on eBay. I'll attach photos I tool of the lug work and fork crowns. It takes a 27.2 seat post. Note the odd head badge. I...

Eric, 69387, I agree certainly has the look of a "Shop" Competizone CycloCross with the brazed on Mafac brake spigotts. The Competizone had more economical plain gauge Reynolds tubes. Do you think that is the case? What size seat post does it take? The serial along BB shell, comparing to other...

Eric, Looks like the "Holdsworth" Gemini tandem is a Marlboro and thus not a Holdsworthy factory era frame. Thus serial number is not in a sequence that is listed in Dave's prediction which applies to only "real" Holdsworths. Marlboro took over the name in 1985. Probably it is the 1987...

Diver, We've often been led down the proverbial "garden path" by jumping to wrong conclusions on a frame date by using an unconfirmed serial number. I'd suggest, to be certain, you clean up the area to the left of 2825. Having said that and as Dave had said pics are indeed helpful. It...

Dave, Site looks great. Holdsworth enthusiasts like myself are very appreciative of all your efforts. Many, many thanks. Doug

Torqueless, So K and R are with serial on fork? Do wonder if Charlie Roberts could have built that frame for Shorter? I understand Shorter didn't build frames himself and guess his main builder was Barry(?) Chick.. Or as you say perhaps rebadged Holdsworth as could be a Putney shop number? Does...

Shaun, Maybe Dave Scrimshaw will chime in, but check this link out: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... TNKZkN4TmM It's been revised since original. Add 1 year for every "69" row. Hope this helps. Doug

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Midlife Yes, Roy Thame branded frames have been thought and examples point to 1975 as year of initiation. This is year Holdsworthy declared that no further shop built frames be branded Holdsworth. The shop did continue to sell factory Holdsworths though. Ad and catalog are both post 1975...

Yes, Although, ad said to be from International Cycle Sport July 1977 only lists Cronometro Ultralite. WF Holdsworth Catalogue from "70's": http://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/upl ... 70s-UK.pdf Catalog also shows a lugged TT.

George, Your frame (12861) looks to me as a circa 1950 Cyclone. Things that go against a Cyclone Deluxe are the lack of more elaborate lugs with additional spearpoints to side of lugs, lack of chrome and lack of unique Cyclone Deluxe head badge. Pic of 1950 Cyclone Deluxe with lugs showing...